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56th FG Zemkes Wolfpack
The Outstanding P-47 Fighter Group Of WW2.
Researching "Hairless Joe"
rdriscoll
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 06:33 AM UTC
Wings Special Edition 1 Thunderbolt (Bodie)
lampie
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2009 - 08:35 AM UTC
Nice find Rex.
Thanks for posting.
It shows the soft edge of the camouflage nicely and note how the forward white invasion stripe is crooked as well.
One mistake stands out in the caption.
August 12th 1944 was the date Schilling took command of the 56th FG. The Bottisham Group Commanders meeting was on August 31st.
Nige
rdriscoll
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Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 07:54 AM UTC
Technically it is a starboard view.....
Here is one that missed numerous times: 56th Fighter Group Osprey (Freeman)
lampie
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Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 08:04 AM UTC
Hi Rex.
I've studied this photo quite a few times in the past, and I've come to the conclusion that its a mis-caption and isnt actually Schillings aircraft.
I have three reasons for doubting the identification captioned.

The aircraft in the photo has a Curtiss prop fitted. Schillings as we know was fitted with a Hamilton prop.
It appears to have oversized Star And Bar markings on the underside of both wings. Photos of Hairless Joe in August 1944 show a normal sized insignia on the starboard wing.
The distinctive "diamond" shaped camouflage pattern on the starboard front area of the fusalage doesnt appear to be present in the photo.
Just my personal thoughts
Nige
rdriscoll
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Posted: Saturday, August 22, 2009 - 08:39 AM UTC
Nige,

I thought the same thing, however, the "S" being visible makes me wonder. Also, after reading Wolfpack Warriors, I get the feeling that Schilling was alway tinkering with his a/c. It looked he wanted to be the first to do things. He spent a lot of time in the workshops designing things. It would interesting to see if anyone else had a/c code S and this type of camouflage on 15 July 1944.
Just a thought.

-Rex
rdriscoll
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Posted: Monday, August 24, 2009 - 11:31 AM UTC
More items for your examination:
The following screenshots are from Victory Films "The fight for the sky"
http://www.victoryfilms.us/PAGE_ONE.html

The first photos show groundcrewman (Crew Chief?) at the front of what I believe is Hairless Joe.



Compare it to this famous photo (Is this also Hairless Joe? The chipped paint on nose looks different from the above photos. We do not know if, when the nose may have been repainted, the dates of the photos, etc.


Another from the same sequence:


The next photo is definitely Hairless Joe. Note that the groundcrewman is the same as the in the first 2 photos (same nose, uniform, cap and the gloves are in the back packet now).


A good view of same groundcrewman, pilot. The gunsight is now uncovered.


Hairless Joe at engine startup:


Is this a starboard shot Hairless Joe in flight? There appears to be a/c code of "S" and a light color rudder (possibly yellow?)


Is Hairless Joe in this screenshot?


More information leading to more questions.

-Rex
lampie
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Posted: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 - 12:14 AM UTC
Hi Rex.
Those are great screenshots. Thanks for posting them.
While I have my doubts that the aircraft having its prop pulled through is Hairless Joe, the others are excellent.
Thats an intriguing "in flight" photo. I have been trying to get hold of a copy of this dvd over in the UK but no luck so far.
As you say,"More information leading to more questions."
But isnt that all just part of the fun?
Nige
lampie
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2009 - 05:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Technically it is a starboard view.....
Here is one that missed numerous times: 56th Fighter Group Osprey (Freeman)



Further to the earlier post, another couple of reasons why I believe this isn't "Hairless Joe" are the lack of underwing pylons,( although these were removable), and theres a white star with a red centre on the starboard wheel cover.
Also, although its very hard to tell, even under a strong magnifier, if the aircraft code was "S", from this angle you should just be able to see the centre cross bar of the letter.

Again,,more questions raised than answers found, but I'm sure this is different aircraft.
Nige
lampie
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Posted: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 08:28 AM UTC
After examining original photographs of Schillings D-25 the quest to confirm the crew information painted on the side of his D-25 is now complete.

The earlier information panel reads.
Pilot.
Lt. Col D.C Schilling
C Chief. J. T. Holleman
Asst. Kornbauer.

The later information panel reads.
Pilot
Col D.C. Schilling
C Chief E. Namowicz
Asst. Kornbauer.

The original information was in yellow paint and quite an elaborate script.
The reason for the change in crew chief isnt known to me at present. The new crew chief name is roughly painted over the earlier one.
The groundcrew were all 62nd FS enlisted men.
Jack Holleman, Charles Kornbauer, and Edmund Namowicz.
A small part of the puzzle solved.
Nige
lampie
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Posted: Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 01:02 AM UTC
A great find on British Pathe News.
A young kid gets a guided tour of Hairless Joe by Dave Schiling.
ALFIE THE ACE

Timeframe is Christmas/New Year 44/45.
Interesting to note that the under fusalage invasion stripes have been removed by this time.
No starboard side view though.
Nige
lampie
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Posted: Sunday, February 14, 2010 - 07:54 AM UTC
Another little detail visible in the Pathe news footage is the internally mounted rectangular rear view mirror. A field modification I believe.
Nige
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Posted: Friday, November 30, 2012 - 06:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Paddy.
Many of the 62nd FS adopted Lil Abner characters.
Schillings first Razorback, 42-7938 was coded LM-S and it was indeed a presentation aircraft, "Hewlett-Woodmere, Long Island". It carried the name "Whack" and there are also photos of this aircraft with the name partially removed.
This aircraft ended up as formation monitor for the 306thBG at Thurleigh still bearing the noseart.



Your friends email is the first reference I've ever seen to Schilling having bubbles on his aircraft.

Nige



Those weren't bubbles musical notes,
lampie
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Posted: Saturday, December 01, 2012 - 04:47 AM UTC
Hi John.
Do you have a photo of this?

Nige
DaneBramage
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Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 02:59 PM UTC
Sorry for the delay, but no. I can't even remember What I was referring to when I wrote that.
DaneBramage
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Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 06:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Sorry for the delay, but no. I can't even remember What I was referring to when I wrote that.



Now I do!!! Here is a Picture of Hairless Joe (remember there were 7 P-47s Schilling flew) This is:



The source has this listed as 42-7938.if you look hard you can see that they are not bubbles because they are solid- a couple the one at the top especially clear (which it isn't) it has a staff and a "flag" like the iconic musical note represented in cartoons.
DaneBramage
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Posted: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 - 08:40 PM UTC
Those are the "bubbles" I thought everyone was referring to and after carefully reading the thread I stand corrected...