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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Waiting for a new steam locomotive in 1/35th
165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 12:20 PM UTC
Standardized US WWII export locomotive: 2-8-0. This one build by Baldwin Locomotive Works. If we can have six+ plastic German kits in 1/35th (counting the armored and unarmored diesels) why not one from the US?

This engine would be at home anywhere from the West Midlands of Britain to Moscow and on to Istanbul and Delhi. (Yes they were also available in 5 foot gauge!)
165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 12:24 PM UTC
M4A1 Sherman (Dennis M. Struk) said:

You know, it just occurred to me- There isn't a single example of a WWII-vintage 1/35 US Army 2-8-0 Steam Locomotive out there, yet there are 4 or 5 different German ones done by TRUMPETER. I haven't checked BALUARD, because those resin locomotives are pretty pricy... I've got a lot of HO steamers in Brass, and no one makes the US Army 2-8-0 in HO, either- I forget the actual US Army Designator... These steam locomotives were definitely not USRA (US Railroad Administration, WWI) types, but they were specifically built for the US Army to operate in Europe during WWII...
165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 01:05 PM UTC
Of course we would also need railroad cars but in this case we might also have a US prototype:

165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 01:28 PM UTC
Or the French equipment:
165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 01:29 PM UTC
Or German:

18Bravo
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 03:13 PM UTC
I've got several DR Dieselloks by Piko I've thought of scaling up. I never thought of a 2-8-0, although I do have one in my stash. Obviously the drivers would be the hardest part.
What I'd really like to see is this:



or



of the Iraqi Railroad. It drove by my house every once in a while. As you can see from the photo, not much separted it from our house.

I'd also like to see this, also available in HO by Piko:



165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 04:43 PM UTC
I really like the brown C + C unit.

Doesn't really fit into a thread on WWII Allied or Axis equipment but I guess since we are talking the "I wants", Cold War topics are just as welcome.
lone-ronin
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 04:45 PM UTC
That 40-8 is right outside of where I work. You from the area?
165thspc
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Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 - 05:26 PM UTC
If you are talking about the French 40 & 8 every state in the US except AK and HI should have one. Kentucky's is in New Haven, KY.
lone-ronin
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 02:03 AM UTC
The one you pictured is Mississippi's. I see it everyday when I look out of my office window. Was just wondering if you were local, or got the pic from the internet.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 02:21 AM UTC
Hi, All! THERE YA GO! THAT'S the kind of response I like to see! Mike, that's an EXCELLENT photo of the US ARMY 2-8-0!!! I totally agree in that TRUMPETER can produce several different German WWII locomotives, yet totally ignore the US and Allied stuff!!! We should all petition TRUMPETER, or maybe some of the other manufacturers such as MIRROR MODELS, that have taken that death-defying leap away from all that same old German stuff! For every kit of a WWII US or Allied vehicle or figure, there are upwards of A DOZEN German (Read: NAZI) kits!!! If there's any doubt about the research and planning of such a kit as the US Army 2-8-0, let me just mention that the various manufacturers of 1/35 German "single-unit, one-offs" or "Paper Panzers" find it pretty easy to bombard us with this stuff that never even made it off the drawing board!!! >:O
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 06:07 AM UTC
What about a few period pics ?







Of course if you're not ready to scratchbuild a locomotive for a 1/35 railroad dio, other options are available














H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:14 AM UTC
As usual Frenchy, WONDERFUL photos all! (p.s. Would you happen to have any more photos of the converted CCKW locomotive, he says shamlessly?)
____________________________________________________________________

VITAL STATISTICS of the USA Transportation Corps 2-8-0 Locomotive:
Cylinders: (2) 19 x 26in
Valve gear: Walschaerts
Boiler: Superheated, 225psi, 150 smoke tubes, 30 flue tubes
Grate: 41 sq. ft.
Leading Wheels: 2ft 9in
Driving Wheels: 4ft 9in
Tractive Effort: 31,490lbf
Wheelbase Length: 51ft 8in
Weight: 124 tons / 12cwt
Axle Load: 15 tons / 15cwt

Distribution of these locomotives in the UK (pre- D-Day):

174 to the Great Western Railway
168 to the London and North Eastern Railway
50 to the London, Midland and Scottish Railway
6 to the Southern Railway


After D-Day the majority of these locomotives were re-collected by the USATC, refurbished were necessary and forwarded on to Europe.



Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 08:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Would you happen to have any more photos of the converted CCKW locomotive,



Unfortunately no (I was sure you would like it )

Here's a COE variant :



H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:10 AM UTC
OK, it's official, I'm in love with a new and wonderful girl!

Her name you say?

USATC S160 2-8-0 steam locomotive #6046! OMG!

Uncle Thrumpy - P-L-E-A-S-E - let me have her!


Below is a link to a BEAUTIFUL YouTube video taken March of this year on the West Somerset Railway in the UK. Beautiful sharp close-ups and several run-bys pulling seven full size passenger cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K80xeChTfuE&feature=player_embedded

(You think I get whiny thinking about a new Deuce variant. - ??? - Just wait till you've been around me for a few months wanting a new steam loco in 1/35th that will work with all my motor pool vehicles!

Darn it we have freight to move, there's a WAR ON! Besides, Gen. Patton AND Monty are on my back every day to "GET IT MOV'N!"

We're coming up to the "big push" soon and we are so hard up for shunters that we're converting GMC trucks into locomotives just to pick-up the slack!
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 09:58 AM UTC
I had the locals here at the Midland and Scottish Rwy shops (Scale-Link) weld up some "tires" for us and at the same time put Mike, my motor pool shop foreman to work on converting a standard GMC deuce into a locomotive.

From the photos that Frenchy shared with us, it looks like someone else had the same idea but they took a slightly different approach.

Might have to also try out that other design and see which is better!


One thing all these vehicles have in common; a large bunker for scrap iron ballast to improve traction.


165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 10:11 AM UTC
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 10:37 AM UTC
Some like their ladies tall and svelte, but not me, not in this case, especially when they have eight drivers! This baby is tall, powerful, kinda chunky and has a tender behind.


165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 02:09 PM UTC
In that last photo the locomotive is so shinny it looks like a scale brass model!
Teaker11
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 02:23 PM UTC
Good idea, but don't forget the troop trains.
also th 2-8-2, 2,10,0 and the big boys, CHALLENGERS 2-6-6-4 AND ALSO THE SHUNT ENGINES FOR RAIL YARDS O-4-0. 0-6-0, 0-8-0,0-10-0 there are just to many to list. ore cars for steel, coal. flats the list could be endless
Jim
165thspc
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Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2013 - 03:26 PM UTC
In this business the list is always endless! I believe we need to stay focused on those locomotives that would have been used in Europe and western Russia during the war years. If we get into locomotives built for US use then this becomes a RR modeling blog no longer connected to the subject of armor.

Challengers really? They had Challengers in Europe in 43-44?
p.s. The 2-10-0's that didn't stay in North America went to Russia.

The Mikados (2-8-2) are classics but really they were quite often just US locos brought to Europe with only a few modifications. However the USATC 2-8-0 were purpose built, custom designs for the Army. They looked distinctive; tall but on short frames like a cat standing on its' tip-toes. And barrel chested; with boilers so large they were hardly able to fit through European tunnels. Again the boilers were so large they almost swallowed their steam and sand domes as well as their smoke stacks.

I cannot help but think these would make the perfect medium sized US wartime loco for a hobby manufacture to use as their first venture into 1/35th scale military locomotives.

And now for another, somewhat more weathered German Boxcar
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 12:47 AM UTC
Would anyone have general dimensions on any of these boxcars?

It seems I can find plenty of photos on the internet but no actual specifications. I am contemplating converting one of the Dragon railway flat cars into a box car but need very basic info on length, and height of box cars?????
goldnova72
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 01:11 AM UTC
Don't think any major plastic company will go for a large Allied loco , hope to be proved wrong though... How about something smaller . The General Electric 44 Ton Diesel Switcher was modified for use in Europe ( Bauchman released one in HO scale years ago )
Teaker11
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 02:00 AM UTC
The 2-10-0 Decapod went to Russia and the rest mostly went to the PRR railroad, but trains weren't limited to Europe. why not a American train dio, if not for the railroad here the US would not have been in the war as the railroad moved all goods, troops, armor..... Why not a 0-6-0 pulling a flat of Sherman's, or P47's and why not a 1/35 Liberty ship being loaded.
Jim
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 02:22 AM UTC
Hi, Teaker11! YES! You're absolutely right about those other steamers- The ONLY reason that I didn't mention them is because the US Army (correct me if I'm wrong) only shipped the relatively small 2-8-0s from the US to Great Britain and then, on to the European Mainland... As a rule, US-built locomotives were too big and way too heavy for European railroads.

There were A LOT of Eastern Roads in the US, besides those Western Roads' 4-8-4 Northerns, 4-6-6-4 Challengers and 4-8-8-4 Big Boys (Union Pacific, Northern Pacific, etc.) that also ran Troop Trains and Interservice War Traffic: The New York Central, the Pennsylvania, the Baltimore & Ohio, and the Chesapeake & Ohio, just to name a few. By the way, the Delaware & Hudson also ran 4-6-6-4 Challengers, handling absolutely VITAL coal trains out of Pennsylvania's coal country... The Delaware & Hudson also operated THE LARGEST Roundhouse in the world, which was built in Oneonta, New York... All of the major US railroads were contracted to carry war materiel. Even the majority of smaller roads such as the New York, Ontario & Western, and the Bangor and Aroostook, etc. ran vital passenger and freight trains of war traffic.

I'd LOVE to see a J-series New York Central 4-6-4 Hudson, an NYC 4-8-2 Mohawk and a Pennsylvania K4s Pacific. The New York Central was one of the few roads that got permission to build new steam power during WWII: these were the later 4-8-2 Mohawks, Classes L3a thru L4b. I'd also love to see a Boston & Albany A-class 2-8-4 Berkshire, and a 4-6-6-4 Challenger with options to build it in a choice of different roads. (D & H, UP, etc.)

Before someone tries to correct me on the name of the New York Central 4-8-2s, I need to mention that every other 4-8-2 besides NYC's were called "Mountains"... The New York Central only had ONE big hill on the whole plant, which was Sherman Hill was just outside Albany, New York. I don't include the Boston & Albany in discussing NYC's steam locomotives, because the Boston & Albany was a subsidiary of, but not owned by the NYC... The Boston & Albany operated the original 2-8-4 A-class Berkshires, their Class-names being derived from the grueling right-of-way through the heart of the Berkshire Mountains of New England...

New York Central's newer steam locomotives were named after bodies of water in New York State. Much of the central's right-of-way traveled alongside rivers, lakes, etc. Thus, NYC's management decreed a different a different naming process for their steam locomotives. For example: the J-series 4-6-4 Hudsons, the L-series 4-8-2 Mohawks, and the S-series 4-8-4 Niagaras... The Niagara was called the Northern on most other roads. The Chesapeake & Ohio called their 4-8-4s Greenbriars... The New York Central advertised itself as "The Water Level Route- You Can Sleep".

This was kind of a barb at the stiff competitor of the Central, the Pennsylvania Railroad. The Pennsy's main lines traveled through some of the most arduous hill-country in the East, necessitating extra locomotives and switching. All this noise and bumping could be pretty annoying if you were trying to sleep on one of Pennsy's many passenger trains...

A streamlined, Henry Dreyfuss-designed New York Central J3a "Super Hudson" would be GREAT in 1/35, but the chances of any of these American steam locomotives ever being produced by a company like TRUMPETER are VERY SLIM to NON-EXISTANT...