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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Waiting for a new steam locomotive in 1/35th
lone-ronin
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 03:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Would anyone have general dimensions on any of these boxcars?

It seems I can find plenty of photos on the internet but no actual specifications. I am contemplating converting one of the Dragon railway flat cars into a box car but need very basic info on length, and height of box cars?????

Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 05:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Would anyone have general dimensions on any of these boxcars?



Check your mailbox (for a WW2 French one).

HTH

H.P.
captnenglish
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 07:44 AM UTC
Love this thread, don't tell swmbo or my local model club this might just tempt me to build something with wheels and an engine for the first time in 30+ years an not just talk about it
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 09:25 AM UTC
There seems to have been three sizes of USATC engines:
Small (a very European looking, high drivered 0-6-0 built by H.K. Porter.)
Medium (the 0-8-0 built by Baldwin.)
Large (the rather American looking 2-8-2 built built by Alco.

Here are a couple of shots of the 0-6-0:

165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 09:32 AM UTC
Here is a shot of the 2-8-2 getting ready to sprout wings and take a short flight through the erecting shops.

I have always loved the fact that locomotive shops and those shops designed to build armor fairly much look the same. Swords into plough shares I guess . . .
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 12:42 PM UTC
I am afraid I have to agree with Dennis' earlier remarks, about how unlikely it would be for one of the big Armor model companies to offer a US built locomotive that was used only in the continental US.

The locomotive selected, I think would have to be a prototype that would appear proper next to the three/four German locomotives already available in 1/35th.

Clearly that would have to be one of the wartime USATC locos.
ianclasper
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 01:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have always loved the fact that locomotive shops and those shops designed to build armor fairly much look the same.



That is because much of the WW2 US armor was built by locomotive and freight car builders. They had the facilities and skills that could be easily converted for that task.


From an online list of builders of Sherman tanks:

Railroad Equipment Manufactures:
Lima Locomotive Works - Locomotives
American Locomotive Co. - Locomotives
Baldwin Locomotive Works - Locomotives
Pressed Steel Car Co. - Freight Cars
Pacific Car and Foundry Co - Freight Cars
Pullman Standard Car Co. - Freight Cars

Weapons:
Federal Machine and Welder Co.
Detroit Tank Arsenal
Fisher Tank Arsenal
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 01:55 PM UTC
Oh my, now how did that get in here? Sorry


Cass Scenic Railway 2013 - Photo by yours' truly.
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 01:58 PM UTC
The first time I walked into the Boatwright armor repair facility on Ft. Knox I thought it was a locomotive shop!

Swords into Plough Shares . . . . .




p.s. Just about every bit of engineering that I know today I learned, thanks to my Dad, from the steam engine.
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 04:54 PM UTC
From my personal collection:



I wonder how many German prisoners understood the irony of their being taken to a humane location for the duration (sometimes all the way back to the United States) in the very same railroad cars in which so many others had spent the last days of their lives?
165thspc
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 05:24 PM UTC
USATC S-160 locomotives in storage in the UK, under armed guard awaiting D-Day:



Movement of some Lend/Lease S-160 locos to staging areas in the UK - in the circus this would be referred to as the "baby elephant walk", nose to tail, nose to tail, nose to tail!
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 05:47 PM UTC
Hi Michael

Did you received the stuff I've sent you ?

Talking about 1/35th scale boxcars, Baluard has released some German ones :

http://www.baluardmodels.com/35-modelos-3.htm

H.P.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 07:16 PM UTC
Just to make a change, here are some Diesels (sorry for adding "fuel" to the fire ) :














H.P.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 10:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The 2-10-0 Decapod went to Russia and the rest mostly went to the PRR railroad, but trains weren't limited to Europe. why not a American train dio, if not for the railroad here the US would not have been in the war as the railroad moved all goods, troops, armor..... Why not a 0-6-0 pulling a flat of Sherman's, or P47's and why not a 1/35 Liberty ship being loaded.
Jim



Hi, All! The New York, Susquehanna and Western also bought a few of the 2-10-0 Decapods. NOTHING larger than a 2-8-2 was ever shipped to England or to Western Europe. Anything bigger than a US-built Mike was just WAAAYYY TOO HEAVY for the light European tracks to support, WAAAYYY TOO BIG to negotiate the tighter curves, and just a bit too tall for European tunnel and bridge clearance heights. As to comparative size, "big" German BR-52 2-10-0s weren't much bigger than an average American 2-8-2...

When comparing my HO LILIPUT Reichsbahn BR04 4-6-4 to one of my BROADWAY LTD NYC 4-6-4 Hudsons, the American locomotive, even with it's typical NYC "Racehorse Look", (Long, low, and perfectly proportioned.) is a larger, more robust piece of machinery.

Just a bit of WWII trivia: When our WWII GIs first arrived in England, Scotland and Ireland, they thought the English steam locomotives and trains were just big toys. They especially thought the European whistles were hilarious- "They go PEEP!", nothing like our American steamers' whistles BLASTING your face off if you got closer than a hundred feet away... No insult intended towards our British and European friends- Personally, the German Reichsbahn BR04 4-6-4 and the British Southern Rwy's A-Class Gresley 4-6-2 Pacifics are two of my favorite European Steamers! My favorite American locomotive? Hands down, the New York Central J-series 4-6-4 Hudsons, both in the standard and the streamlined 20th Century Limited Dreyfuss configurations. That BROADWAY LIMITED J3a streamlined "Super Hudson" of mine is GORGEOUS!!!

Forget about 2-8-4 Berks, 4-8-2 Mountains or any of the REALLY big American Articulateds ever showing up in Europe. Besides, to turn a UP 4-8-8-4 Big Boy around would require a greater land mass than the whole country of Lichtenstein!!! But can you imagine a Big Boy in 1/35 scale?!? =:O
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Friday, June 21, 2013 - 10:58 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In this business the list is always endless! I believe we need to stay focused on those locomotives that would have been used in Europe and western Russia during the war years. If we get into locomotives built for US use then this becomes a RR modeling blog no longer connected to the subject of armor.

Challengers really? They had Challengers in Europe in 43-44?
p.s. The 2-10-0's that didn't stay in North America went to Russia.

The Mikados (2-8-2) are classics but really they were quite often just US locos brought to Europe with only a few modifications. However the USATC 2-8-0 were purpose built, custom designs for the Army. They looked distinctive; tall but on short frames like a cat standing on its' tip-toes. And barrel chested; with boilers so large they were hardly able to fit through European tunnels. Again the boilers were so large they almost swallowed their steam and sand domes as well as their smoke stacks.

I cannot help but think these would make the perfect medium sized US wartime loco for a hobby manufacture to use as their first venture into 1/35th scale military locomotives.

And now for another, somewhat more weathered German Boxcar



Hi, All! Definitely NO Challengers in Europe- Even if the smaller, lighter European tracks could have supported a Challenger, (HA!) they were far too vital to our own war traffic to ship them overseas... Even a good-sized 4-8-2 like New York Central's Mohawks (NYC owned 600 of them!) would probably have been too large and too heavy for European rails. I don't include the former Soviet Union in this discussion- Some of Russia's steamers were big, but nothing in the same league as our Articulateds...
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 12:50 AM UTC
Great contributions guys!

Frenchy, WOW as usual.

Try not to let the hobby manufactures see all those little "stink bug" diesel photos or one of them will be the first US loco we see produced in 1/35th.
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 01:04 AM UTC
Talk about size: The S-160 USATC 0-8-0 model with tender in 1/35th would be around 21 inches long.

Clear some more shelf space Honey! Throw out the 1/35th subs if you have to!
Frenchy
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 01:55 AM UTC
More Whitcomb-built Army diesels pics here :

http://www.robertsarmory.com/whitcomb.htm

The one in the Cassino picture is a 65-DE-14.

H.P.
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 02:13 AM UTC
Drawings of the S-160 Consolidation found online:

165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 02:15 AM UTC
Best broadside photo I have found to-date!

165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 04:57 AM UTC
Saw something cute last night in my readings: it said these USATC engines were referred to as the "Gipsy Rose Lee" engines, meaning: "striped and ready for action"!
PantherF
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 05:01 AM UTC
Man... makes me want to see the movie "Train" with Burt Lancaster!

(and build a locomotive too)



~ Jeff
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 05:07 AM UTC

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Man... makes me want to see the movie "Train" with Burt Lancaster!

(and build a locomotive too)

or "Von Ryan's Express"


The same thought has been going thru my mind.
165thspc
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 06:22 AM UTC
Graywolfgang
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Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2013 - 09:33 AM UTC
There was a company out of France call Ironside and they made a lot of rolling stock. I still have one of thies left to build. T have seen them on E-Bay.





Wolf




Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Would anyone have general dimensions on any of these boxcars?

It seems I can find plenty of photos on the internet but no actual specifications. I am contemplating converting one of the Dragon railway flat cars into a box car but need very basic info on length, and height of box cars?????