login   |    register
Armor/AFV
For all military ground-force modelling subjects.
REVIEW
Leopard 2A4M CAN
brian638
Visit this Community
England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Member Since: July 24, 2004
entire network: 309 Posts
KitMaker Network: 31 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 03:57 AM UTC
Michael Shackleton casts his expert eye over this latest Leopard 2A4M CAN from HobbyBoss. Have they got it right then? Read his review and look over all of the supplied images.



Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
DAR
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: April 27, 2002
entire network: 250 Posts
KitMaker Network: 21 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 04:55 AM UTC
Thanks for the review Michael. Any ideas on how much the kit retails for?
jwest21
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Member Since: October 16, 2006
entire network: 3,326 Posts
KitMaker Network: 243 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 04:59 AM UTC
I can't wait for this one to be available!!
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 06:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Any ideas on how much the kit retails for?



Trumpeter/Hobby Boss usually strives for about the $45.00 USD retail mark in order to make it affordable. However, with ailing economies all over the place the local hobby shops may be inclined to raise that retail price.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 06:32 AM UTC
Don't forget to order my Canadian Leopard 2 DVD set!

The images of the Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN were used by Hobby Boss to develop this great new kit!

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=241842&page=1
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 06:48 AM UTC
A couple of minor details to address...

You don't have to use the 506 decals that simulate the Velcro if you build the kit as a brand new tank in Germany used by the crews from training and commissioning of the main guns before they were deployed or sent to Canada. There were no Velcro patches on the tanks in Germany during that time frame. The 2A4M CANs also had the carbine stowage box and both ECM storage boxes mounted at that time too.

Regarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.

Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.

If the slat sections had not been included someone for sure would have complained that they should have been. Many modellers have complained about the complexity and cost of aftermaket PE slat sets. Many calls for plastic slat have been heard. Now you have it. Yes, Barracuda MCS is required for the slat for an Afghanistan deployed tank. I suspect we will see some from an aftermarket producer. Blackdog Models did it for the Hobby Boss Leopard 2A6M CAN kit and Land Rover kits.

Who is to say that in the future we won't see a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN without Barracuda MCS but with slat armour attached?

Wouldn't it be funny if there already is an image of a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN without Barracuda MCS attached but showing the turret and hull slat sections attached.
Cantstopbuyingkits
Visit this Community
European Union
Member Since: January 28, 2015
entire network: 2,095 Posts
KitMaker Network: 77 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 07:21 AM UTC
Is there a resin correction set for the grill?
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 08:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Is there a resin correction set for the grill?



You may likely see one very soon as well as some other details for the kit.
pod3105
Visit this Community
Waterford, Ireland
Member Since: August 08, 2010
entire network: 398 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 12:13 PM UTC
Michael-thank you a for very useful review. Jason- thank you alsofor osme points of clarification.
mshackleton
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Member Since: December 16, 2007
entire network: 536 Posts
KitMaker Network: 39 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 01:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Regarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.

Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.



Jason - at no point do I state anything is incorrect (apart from the rear grille), particularly about the antennae. I'm just pointing out the fact that this is NOT an Afghan theatre model from the box. As we have both said, HB should have pointed out the options more clearly. Didn't you and Anthony have any input towards the instructions?

The Blackdog Barracuda was awful. Perfect Scale Modellbau do it much better. I have just done a test fit of the HB hull bottom to the PSM Barracuda hull top and the fit isn't too bad. Just trim a millimetre or two off the rear hull edges and it should fit. All the widths are perfect. By combining the two kits (and not using the old HobbyBoss 2A4 which the conversion was intended for), you can have a fine model of an Afghan theatre 2A4M CAN. The PSM kit also has the correct grille!


The fact that the rear slats are wrong is totally inexcusable, particularly as HB have made the same mistake before, and it is a well-known mistake.


I believe the latest machines are not fitted with the Velcro patches, so if you can't face placing all 506 of them, don't:-)
DAR
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: April 27, 2002
entire network: 250 Posts
KitMaker Network: 21 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 02:18 PM UTC
My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.
Hellrabbit
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: June 28, 2015
entire network: 139 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 02:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.


if you want a standard A4M CAN, remove the slat armor is enough. as for the storage box and antenna...Jason has already give you the clue.
DAR
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: April 27, 2002
entire network: 250 Posts
KitMaker Network: 21 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 02:59 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.


if you want a standard A4M CAN, remove the slat armor is enough. as for the storage box and antenna...Jason has already give you the clue.



My query was about the current antenna set up for tanks returned to Canada post Afghanistan. Some images on the net show the 'T' mounts fitted, whilst others don't. What isn't clear is the time frame in which the photos were taken.
terminators
Visit this Community
France
Member Since: February 20, 2012
entire network: 1,738 Posts
KitMaker Network: 10 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 15, 2016 - 11:28 PM UTC
Thanks for the review.

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean about the slat armour. Is there some issues with it for build a real vehicle in Afghanistan ?
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Regarding the antennas...Hobby Boss is not incorrect in showing four antennas attached. All of the 2A4M CANs deployed to Afghanistan had four antennas mounted.

Hobby Boss could have simply shown the slat and the additional two antennas as optional parts to be used at the discretion of the modeller. I think stating that those details are incorrect is a bit too one sided.



Jason - at no point do I state anything is incorrect (apart from the rear grille), particularly about the antennae. I'm just pointing out the fact that this is NOT an Afghan theatre model from the box. As we have both said, HB should have pointed out the options more clearly. Didn't you and Anthony have any input towards the instructions?

The Blackdog Barracuda was awful. Perfect Scale Modellbau do it much better. I have just done a test fit of the HB hull bottom to the PSM Barracuda hull top and the fit isn't too bad. Just trim a millimetre or two off the rear hull edges and it should fit. All the widths are perfect. By combining the two kits (and not using the old HobbyBoss 2A4 which the conversion was intended for), you can have a fine model of an Afghan theatre 2A4M CAN. The PSM kit also has the correct grille!


The fact that the rear slats are wrong is totally inexcusable, particularly as HB have made the same mistake before, and it is a well-known mistake.


I believe the latest machines are not fitted with the Velcro patches, so if you can't face placing all 506 of them, don't:-)



First...I had no input on the instructions. I was a technical consultant on details of the real vehicle to be incorporated into the kit. The rear grill detail was missed by everyone. C'est la vie. I suspect that 12 grill slats versus 11 grill slats will not stop ANYONE from building the kit.

The antenna issue is as you say...a "quibble"...put two or four antennas on as the modeller pleases...easy peasy.

I agree the previous Black Dog Barracuda conversion is not up to par with PSM...but it might be totally acceptable to someone other than you or I...and it would be a less expensive option that buying the PSM conversion plus the Hobby Boss kit. The PSM 2A4M CAN conversion is 110 Euro and the Black Dog 2A6M CAN conversion is 87 Euro. Perhaps Black Dog will improve their Barracuda quality. Sometimes companies actually get better with their products...would you not say?

With the kit not even on the shelves other than Asia yet maybe PSM will create a new conversion specific to the new Hobby Boss kit...that would be a wise decision considering the excellent detail on their current 2A4M CAN conversion.

All of the 2A4M CANs sent to Canada have the Velcro on them. The only exception were when the tanks were in Germany for crew training and main gun commissioning. They had no Velcro strips attached in Germany.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My plan is the build the kit as a more recent Canada based vehicle, I know some changes are in order.
I can dispense with the slat and now also the velcro patches?
Regarding the antennas. Would it be normal for the 'T' mounts to be fitted. If so, one or both?
TIA.



For building a current Canadian stationed version...

- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for the review.

Sorry but I don't understand what you mean about the slat armour. Is there some issues with it for build a real vehicle in Afghanistan ?



At the current time with current reference images the slat armour was only observed attached to the five Leopard 2A4M CAN tanks that were deployed to Afghanistan. When the tanks were in Afghanistan they were also fitted with the Barracuda Mobile Camouflage System (MCS) panels on the hull and turret. They also had a tan painted Carbine stowage box and two tan painted ECM boxes on the turret top.

Neither the Barracuda or the slat armour or the ECM boxes are mounted on current Leopard 2A4M CANs in Canada. They were delivered with the ECM boxes and carbine box attached. The ECM boxes were removed to prevent damage. The carbine box is still attached. The T antenna mounts are standard on all 2A4M CANs. In Afghanistan there were four antennas attached (two on each). In Canada current 2A4M CANs have two antennas attached. One antenna is mounted on each T shaped mount. The antennas can be seen on the front position or the rear position on the T shaped mounts.

For detailed digital reference images of Canadian Leopard 2A4M CANs and Canada's other Leopard 2s my DVD set is exactly what you need.

MadModeler
Visit this Community
Nova Scotia, Canada
Member Since: July 26, 2012
entire network: 454 Posts
KitMaker Network: 165 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text



For building a current Canadian stationed version...

- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.



You also need a few 1:35 Tim Horton cups laying around the tank.


Cheers,
Tom
mshackleton
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Member Since: December 16, 2007
entire network: 536 Posts
KitMaker Network: 39 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC
I thought I read somewhere that the Velcro was not being used on newly-delivered machines? Or was that just 2A6M CAN?
DAR
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: April 27, 2002
entire network: 250 Posts
KitMaker Network: 21 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text


For building a current Canadian stationed version...

- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.



Thank you Jason, your input is much appreciated.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



For building a current Canadian stationed version...

- Leave off the slat sections and support arms.
- Attach the Velcro patches.
- Leave off the two ECM boxes.
- Attach the carbine box.
- Attach both T shaped antenna mounts but only use two antennas. One on each T shaped antenna mount. The antennas can be seen both mounted on the front mount or both mounted on the rear mount.
- Use the C6 GPMG with the butt stock.



You also need a few 1:35 Tim Horton cups laying around the tank.


Cheers,
Tom



I believe the proper military designation is...

Container, thermal, beverage, with roll up rim.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 01:46 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I thought I read somewhere that the Velcro was not being used on newly-delivered machines? Or was that just 2A6M CAN?



That is only the newly rebuilt Canadian Leopard 2A6M CANs. They have no Velcro patches and some other upgrades including the now standardized front and rear driving cameras, and the camouflage pole rack on the turret top. The slat attachment points are welded on the turret and hull and the ECM boxes are still attached.

At the current time the 2A6M CANs are only in Gagetown with the A Squadron, Royal Canadian Armoured Corps School and C Squadron, Royal Canadian Dragoons.
LeoCmdr
Visit this Community
Alberta, Canada
Member Since: January 19, 2005
entire network: 4,036 Posts
KitMaker Network: 160 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 03:22 AM UTC
I dig some digging and I can confirm that the tank as depicted in the kit existed.

Yes, a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN with the Velcro strips, no Barracuda MCS, ECM boxes, carbine rifle box, and hull and turret slat armour mounted.

Sorry folks, I won't be posting an image.

So, if you want to build the kit completely out of box it would be correct.
Hellrabbit
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: June 28, 2015
entire network: 139 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 03:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I dig some digging and I can confirm that the tank as depicted in the kit existed.

Yes, a Canadian Leopard 2A4M CAN with the Velcro strips, no Barracuda MCS, ECM boxes, carbine rifle box, and hull and turret slat armour mounted.

Sorry folks, I won't be posting an image.

So, if you want to build the kit completely out of box it would be correct.


And wont it be funny if HobbyBoss will also release a normal version without Slat armor? it is always welcomed that more brand new leopard kit can be done from HB
MadModeler
Visit this Community
Nova Scotia, Canada
Member Since: July 26, 2012
entire network: 454 Posts
KitMaker Network: 165 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 16, 2016 - 03:49 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I believe the proper military designation is...

Container, thermal, beverage, with roll up rim.



Only if it has a NATO stock number on it.