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REVIEW
M60A2 Patton
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2016 - 11:51 PM UTC
Darren Baker shares with us a first look at the new M60A2 Patton Late Version Starship from AFV Club. This kit is due to be on general release at the end of June 2016.

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
#013
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 01:15 AM UTC
Looks like a real stunner! (Now, do I need a third A2 to join the Academy & Adler ones? And can I sneak it into the house undetected?...)
ULIX-VM
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 03:14 AM UTC
the m60a2 patton first dragon right now afv-club. maybe third and last is tamiya from japan.
Tojo72
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 05:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

the m60a2 patton first dragon right now afv-club. maybe third and last is tamiya from japan.



What are your thoughts behind your rankings,accuracy,details,ease of build ?
billflorig
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 09:01 AM UTC
Darren, thank you for the first look! I gotta ask the same questions as Tony....which kit is better? AFV Club or Dragon?
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
#406
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 09:51 AM UTC
I have not handled the Dragon offering and so that is not a question I can answer with any certainty. My gut instinct is that the AFV Club offering is the better of the two as I have heard nothing positive about the DML offering.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 04:16 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have not handled the Dragon offering and so that is not a question I can answer with any certainty. My gut instinct is that the AFV Club offering is the better of the two as I have heard nothing positive about the DML offering.



Hi, Darren! THANKS MUCH for the initial review! This confirms my belief that the AFV CLUB M60A2 is well worth waiting for. Any idea of the scheduled release-date?

HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 09:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

the m60a2 patton first dragon right now afv-club. maybe third and last is tamiya from japan.



What are your thoughts behind your rankings,accuracy,details,ease of build ?



Probably no thought to how he ranked them. It seems like just one more of his gibberish posts. He left out the Academy one. Oh by the way, Tamiya already did one about 30 years ago too.
Tojo72
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Posted: Sunday, June 12, 2016 - 09:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


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the m60a2 patton first dragon right now afv-club. maybe third and last is tamiya from japan.



What are your thoughts behind your rankings,accuracy,details,ease of build ?



Probably no thought to how he ranked them. It seems like just one more of his gibberish posts. He left out the Academy one. Oh by the way, Tamiya already did one abut 30 years ago too.



That's where I was going Gino
bkkinman
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2016 - 01:34 AM UTC
I was starting to lean towards the Academy kit (I may be in Seoul in August)- after reading about the issues with the Dragon kit. I may wait for this one and get some other Academy recent offering.
TankCarl
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2016 - 04:04 AM UTC
Looking at the torsion bar mounts, and the escape hatch shape,I think this is the top of the list as far as accuracygoes.I ordered one through my LHS,and will add it to my side by side by side A2 build
easyco69
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2016 - 09:31 PM UTC
how does the tamiya stack up against this? I bet AFV is best of all of them? But wow, look at all those parts.
barkingdigger
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Monday, June 13, 2016 - 09:37 PM UTC
The Tamiya kit is decades-old, simplified, and not a patch on any of the three new A2s. The Academy kit is OK but needs a bit of detailing, the DML sounds like a disaster (missing detail, inaccurate hull - rushed into production with inadequate QC and research?), and this new AFV Club kit looks to be the best of the bunch by far!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, June 16, 2016 - 04:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Looking at the torsion bar mounts, and the escape hatch shape,I think this is the top of the list as far as accuracygoes.I ordered one through my LHS,and will add it to my side by side by side A2 build



Concur... Make MY M60A2 an AFV CLUB kit! Scratch that- My TWO M60A2s; one "Early" and one "Late" (I'll have to scratch-build or kit-bash the differences on my own), will DEFINITELY make it into my collection!!!

PS- I WISH that AFV would do an all-new M551 Sheridan...
Amerlok
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Posted: Friday, June 17, 2016 - 10:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text


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the m60a2 patton first dragon right now afv-club. maybe third and last is tamiya from japan.



What are your thoughts behind your rankings,accuracy,details,ease of build ?



I noticed a problem with the markings. The "Bandits" had 3▵1▵32AR and not 3▵32▵. I could be wrong for the period prior to 1977. I was in the battalion from 1/1977 to 12/1979. (The A2's were replaced by A3's in 7/1979.)

Outside of that, the kit looks nice. It looks like AFV Club did their research. The top-loading air filters are correct.

Personally, I do not remember "Aces Wild" but a few tanks in Alpha and Bravo companies had names. None of Charlie's tanks had names (outside of the "This Piece of Junk" but we could not paint that on the bore evacuators).


M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 05:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

the m60a2 patton first dragon right now afv-club. maybe third and last is tamiya from japan.



What are your thoughts behind your rankings,accuracy,details,ease of build ?



I noticed a problem with the markings. The "Bandits" had 3▵1▵32AR and not 3▵32▵. I could be wrong for the period prior to 1977. I was in the battalion from 1/1977 to 12/1979. (The A2's were replaced by A3's in 7/1979.)

Outside of that, the kit looks nice. It looks like AFV Club did their research. The top-loading air filters are correct.

Personally, I do not remember "Aces Wild" but a few tanks in Alpha and Bravo companies had names. None of Charlie's tanks had names (outside of the "This Piece of Junk" but we could not paint that on the bore evacuators).





THAT's GREAT!!! "This Piece of Junk"!!!

I HAVE to model THAT one!!!

Might you possibly have any info on that particular vehicle? I.E: "early" or "late" -A2, serial number, or any other details to distinguish it from the other Tracks in Charlie?
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, June 19, 2016 - 05:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Darren Baker shares with us a first look at the new M60A2 Patton Late Version Starship from AFV Club. This kit is due to be on general release at the end of June 2016.

Link to Item

If you have comments or questions please post them here.

Thanks!



Just as a comparison of reviews of this kit, if any of you guys are interested, check out the review of AFV's -A2 over on the "Missing Lynx" site... (by Cookie Sewell, I think..?)
Amerlok
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2016 - 02:47 AM UTC
Every M60A2 was a piece of junk. It was an unbeatable weapons system when it work but there was always something wrong.

There were only a few good things about that tank. One, gunners were very good with the choke sight (because the laser range finder was broken more often than not). Two, you never had a hangfire with the conventional combustible cartridge. You just switched to "Missile" and "burned that sucker out". (Conventional mode caused a very short, high voltage charge to the electrical primer in the cartridge. Missile mode sent a long (i.e., more than 3 seconds) low voltage (I believe 24 volts) to the firing pin. That heated the firing pin which in turn ignited the cartridge. On the way! Unfortunately, firing a conventional round in Missile mode could throw the missile trackers out of alignment.

In 1977, C16 had its T-97 put on backwards. (It happens when you change track in the dark.)

In the middle of 1977, the battalion replaced the T-97 tracks with T-142. We were always losing track pads on the autobahn. That would go flying thirty feet in the air and then bounce three or four times. I am surprised that we never killed a German motorist.

In 1977 or 1978, the battalion itself repainted its tanks. It took about a month to do all 54 of them.

At least half of the tanks did not have bore-evacuators and those which did had theirs disabled. The CBSS was incompatible with the bore-evacuators.

In 1978, one of the battalion's tanks sheared its drive sprocket when it threw its left track at Hohenfels.

1977 was the last year that we used "real" HEAT rounds. Beautiful rooster tails at night when you hit a hard target. After that, the rounds used during gunnery had inert warheads.

In June or July 1978, Charlie Company's XO walked to the tent during gunnery and exclaimed that he could not wait to be in an M1 going down range and the hard target would be an M60A2. I had a bad time trying to keep them running through gunnery.

In 1978 or 1979 at Hohenfels, Gen. Nutting climbed on A Company's 1st Platoon Leader's tank in the middle of the night. The General saw a full trash bag on the back deck. He asked the 2LT, "When was this trash was made?" The lieutenant had completely forgotten about the trash bag. So, he thought the General was referring this particular M60A2. He answered, "I believe in March 1974, sir."

That should give you some ideas for some things that you could do with model.
TankSGT
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Posted: Monday, June 20, 2016 - 04:01 PM UTC
Gary we all lost track pads back then. That's why you always see period pictures with spare pads all over the bustle racks. I remember seeing an article in PS magazine stating that they had a bad batch of pads made over several months with defective bonding to the back plate. Who knows how many thousands were made that way. My unit ordered them by the pallet load. As a TC of an A3 in the late 80s I hardly ever saw a track pad fail.

Tom
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Saturday, June 25, 2016 - 07:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Every M60A2 was a piece of junk. It was an unbeatable weapons system when it work but there was always something wrong.

There were only a few good things about that tank. One, gunners were very good with the choke sight (because the laser range finder was broken more often than not). Two, you never had a hangfire with the conventional combustible cartridge. You just switched to "Missile" and "burned that sucker out". (Conventional mode caused a very short, high voltage charge to the electrical primer in the cartridge. Missile mode sent a long (i.e., more than 3 seconds) low voltage (I believe 24 volts) to the firing pin. That heated the firing pin which in turn ignited the cartridge. On the way! Unfortunately, firing a conventional round in Missile mode could throw the missile trackers out of alignment.

In 1977, C16 had its T-97 put on backwards. (It happens when you change track in the dark.)

In the middle of 1977, the battalion replaced the T-97 tracks with T-142. We were always losing track pads on the autobahn. That would go flying thirty feet in the air and then bounce three or four times. I am surprised that we never killed a German motorist.

In 1977 or 1978, the battalion itself repainted its tanks. It took about a month to do all 54 of them.

At least half of the tanks did not have bore-evacuators and those which did had theirs disabled. The CBSS was incompatible with the bore-evacuators.

In 1978, one of the battalion's tanks sheared its drive sprocket when it threw its left track at Hohenfels.

1977 was the last year that we used "real" HEAT rounds. Beautiful rooster tails at night when you hit a hard target. After that, the rounds used during gunnery had inert warheads.

In June or July 1978, Charlie Company's XO walked to the tent during gunnery and exclaimed that he could not wait to be in an M1 going down range and the hard target would be an M60A2. I had a bad time trying to keep them running through gunnery.

In 1978 or 1979 at Hohenfels, Gen. Nutting climbed on A Company's 1st Platoon Leader's tank in the middle of the night. The General saw a full trash bag on the back deck. He asked the 2LT, "When was this trash was made?" The lieutenant had completely forgotten about the trash bag. So, he thought the General was referring this particular M60A2. He answered, "I believe in March 1974, sir."

That should give you some ideas for some things that you could do with model.



OK, so the M60A2 was "a piece of junk". The vaunted German Tigers and Panthers weren't really as "great" as the Panzer-heads make them out to be, either.

One can't fault the US Army for "trying". Whether the -A2 was "a piece of junk" or not, this new kit, IMO, will help to round out AFV CLUB's M60-series kits, what with an -A3 coming "soon". Hopefully AFV CLUB won't just let the -A3 slide into "Limbo", like they did their M8 HMC, (75mm Howitzer on a modified M5A1 Chassis)...
53superC
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Posted: Sunday, July 03, 2016 - 11:02 PM UTC
Only one who has been there can tell funnies the the ones above. I was on a -A3 and we replaced road wheels more then we replaced track pads. NTC was the worst place on tracks; both on our A3's and 113A2-----B trp , 2/9 CAV
solipsistnation
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 - 04:56 AM UTC
The "Aces Wild" vehicle is the one that was at the MVTF in Jacques Littlefields' collection.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 - 08:36 PM UTC
I think you guys must be talking about the M551 Sheridan when you list all the problems on the A2--oh wait! They both had the same gun system didn't they? Strange how many of the same problems occurred on the Sheridan. I was at Graf in 1978 when the CID shut us down and made us do a tool layout in the middle of gunnery. They were looking for accountability on our sight adjustment screwdriver, which had about a 2 1/2 foot blade. Someone had murdered the librarian at Graf the night before with one. Even the tools had to be specialized. Turns out it was a mechanic in an A2 DSU unit. I agree, the entire gun system was a piece of electronic crap-- up more than down. The recoil of the 152mm conventional round was something to experience-- shearing of one final drive? It was a common occurance to shear off both on the Sheridan-- usually during gunnery, just from the effect of the recoil. I have to admit though, using the A2 as a target downrange would have been more satisfying than a Sheridan-- the round would have just gone through the M551 and kept going! Now back on target so to speak-- I'm glad AFV club is finally doing justice to these dinosaurs.
VR, Russ
mmeier
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Posted: Tuesday, April 25, 2017 - 09:51 PM UTC
Thanks for sharing the stories on the M60A2 and M551. It gives "life" to a otherwise cold and technical thing.

So now excuse me, I have to kill a Sherman or three with my Panther.