login   |    register
Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
1/72 Airfix EE Lightning double build!
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 30, 2002
entire network: 8,248 Posts
KitMaker Network: 943 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 06, 2017 - 09:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

! RAF jets: there can never be too many :-) !



I agree and therefore the Lightning is a must

Thanks for the info on the A4 Washi sheets, I will be buying some to give them a go. It might be the perfect medium for masking the Wespe for my Bf110
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 08:50 PM UTC
Mal! I now realize that I didn't answer your question about the Tamiya masking sheets: they do seem to be readily available in the UK, google TAM-87130 and you'll find them! I am not sure where I got mine from but it was probably a Swedish source. Also, please note, I haven't tried them yet so I can't say anything about performance, for the time being I only happen to own them which is a good start !



Magnus
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2017 - 08:10 AM UTC
Frederick! A bit like the Swedish Draken: more entertaining than useful in a sharp situation! For the Lightning, I think the lack of compromise when it was designed meant that its adaptability was severely limited later on when the operational requirements changed! But still, even at the end of its operational life, there was nothing that beat it from a standstill to 35 000 ft!

Oliver, Joel, Bernd and Paul! Thanks for your kind words!

Mal! 50 metres !!?? That means that I got away lucky with just having to buy five metres ! I just ordered a roll of Artool Ultra Mask, please feel welcome to come back in a few years and tell me that I once again need to get a roll of some other stuff ! RAF jets: there can never be too many :-) !



Magnus
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 30, 2002
entire network: 8,248 Posts
KitMaker Network: 943 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 08:52 PM UTC
I have just read back on a few comments and noticed this:


Quoted Text

The foil I use was recommended by Mal a few years ago, it's called Oramask 810.



I do use Oramask 810 for some applications but now only because I have a 50m roll of the stuff. The Ultra Mask, which is also mentioned is far better. I'm assuming that I recommended the Oramask quite some time ago because I wouldn't recommend it now!

I'm very interested in where you get A4 sheets of "Tamiya tape like material" on a backing sheet?
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 30, 2002
entire network: 8,248 Posts
KitMaker Network: 943 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 08:44 PM UTC
Very nicely done Magnuss, this is looking seriously good I will have to get me a Lightning. I'm building the Airfix 1/48 Gloster Meteor at the moment and now I have a hankering to build more early RAF jets.
KelticKnot
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Member Since: May 11, 2015
entire network: 581 Posts
KitMaker Network: 39 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 09:01 AM UTC
Magnus, your painted markings have emerged beautifully. I cant wait to see this one completed and your progress on the other!
berndm
Visit this Community
Niedersachsen, Germany
Member Since: March 26, 2014
entire network: 829 Posts
KitMaker Network: 23 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 08:39 AM UTC
Incredible project, the paint and masking is outstanding.
Lovely work !
Joel_W
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: December 04, 2010
entire network: 7,751 Posts
KitMaker Network: 94 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2017 - 03:45 AM UTC
Magnus,
Your masking skills are really outstanding. The final results certainly speak for themselves.

Joel
Antilles
Visit this Community
Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany
Member Since: March 22, 2015
entire network: 343 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 - 11:14 AM UTC
Magnus ,
extraordinary masking and painting of Your lightning . This will truly be a real gem!

Oliver
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
Visit this Community
Tennessee, United States
Member Since: December 21, 2002
entire network: 6,654 Posts
KitMaker Network: 716 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 - 08:36 AM UTC
Magnus,

I love the Lightning and am enjoying this build.

Quoted Text

Once talked to a former Lighting fitter... described the Lightning as 'all flash and no bang' and would have been next to useless in a real war.


In 1983 I talked to an USAFE F-15 pilot. In a dogfight the Lightning was powerful and fast, but that was all it had going for it. A few years ago I read an account of an F-16 pilot who flew dissimilar ACM against a Lightning; he beat it soundly close in but then he let his cockiness get the better of him, and he "got killed' by it by letting it use its energy to outfly him in a slashing attack.

That said, it was designed in the 1950s when the concept of performance was very different than it is for 4th Gen fighters. Back then it was assumed that there would be no dogfights. The whole purpose was to get a fighter off the alert pad and up to 40,000 feet and as far downrange as possible, so that it could kill the Badgers, Bears, Beagles and Bison carrying nukes towards the western democracies. The Lightning was an interceptor, not a fighter.

Two cool features of the plane taht 've read is that it was marginally capable of supercruise - reaching Mach 1 without afterburner. Its firecontrol with Redtop or the other IR missile was capable of limited all-aspect firing long before the Lima - AIM-9L - came on with USAF.

Lightning was an awesome system.
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2017 - 07:26 AM UTC
Sorry Friends! I've tried to spend time modelling instead of posting and I've obviously been successful since it was three weeks since my last post :-) ! I've finished the masking-and-painting process and I'm in the middle of the rather tedious decal process. I've however saved up for a massive photo update, see below!

Mal! I obviously need to study the manual and do some experiments! I think "drag knives" is a good description but they come in kind of a cartridge so there are no adjustments apart from knife pressure and cutting speed available. I do however have my ideas on how to improve the shape of that "A"!

So, this is what I've been busy with since mid-jan!


Forward fuselage roundel and squadron markings masked...


...paint it blue...


...lookin' good...


...maskin' some red dots...


...and then paintin' them...


...lookin' even better and starting on the squadron markings...


On the subject of squadron markings, here comes the checkers...


...and checkers in place...


...loadin' the airbrush with some more red...


...and that's all folks!

Have a nice weekend!



Magnus
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 30, 2002
entire network: 8,248 Posts
KitMaker Network: 943 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 07:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The markings are looking very fine Magnus, congrats on Santa getting you the means to make your own masks! I sympathise with your view on decals, I feel they are fast becoming an outmoded method at least for markings and insignia. I imagine stencils and such smaller stuff will have to remain in decal form for a while yet....



True Paul, but I have an idea that would/could even produce those items as masks. The real issue would be that they probably wouldn't be able to be used. So the idea will be restricted to those masks that are too small to cut (this is more because of the low tack nature of the material, rather than the ability of my cutter) but that can still be used. For the real small stuff, stencil data etc, then the way forward is HGW's new decal method or dry transfers. The same can be said for nose art but I can produce some using masks, such as the "Belle" (Memphis Belle).


Yep looking good Magnus.

A possible tip for the small stuff, try making the stroke width a bit wider (towards the center, to keep the width). The problem with doing this is that the centers of the likes of "A", "9", "4" etc will be smaller. But the your cutter won't struggle as much to produce straight and parallel lines. It is also often better to weed items with small centers after they have been transferred as there is very much less chance of the centers being out of place.

Is it possible to adjust the "offset angle" on your machine? Assuming that it uses "drag knifes"?

Joel_W
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: December 04, 2010
entire network: 7,751 Posts
KitMaker Network: 94 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 10:53 AM UTC
Magnus,
Absolutely impressive. the tail and marking look fantastic.
Joel
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 10:15 AM UTC
Paul! It is a bit tedious though but I might be able to speed up the process a bit when getting more used to it!

A bit of fin-work tonight!








I'll have to run a wash along the spine where it meets the fuselage to mask that slightly jagged masking edge...



Magnus
KelticKnot
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Member Since: May 11, 2015
entire network: 581 Posts
KitMaker Network: 39 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 09:29 AM UTC
The markings are looking very fine Magnus, congrats on Santa getting you the means to make your own masks! I sympathise with your view on decals, I feel they are fast becoming an outmoded method at least for markings and insignia. I imagine stencils and such smaller stuff will have to remain in decal form for a while yet....
goodn8
Visit this Community
Berlin, Germany
Member Since: October 12, 2008
entire network: 360 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 - 05:29 AM UTC
Mal & Magnus: Thank you very much for the quick reply! That was really helpful and I greately appreciate!

Thomas
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 - 09:18 AM UTC
Joel! Thanks! Mal is however the master, I'm just a humble follower ! And I suppose you now realise how much I loathe decals considering the amount of work I'm putting in to avoid them !


As I said before, the NMF Lightning is alive and well! I've undercoated the fin with white, both to give a solid and light base for the blue coat and to be able to mask the fin flash and the letter "A". If you think that "A" looks a bit crooked you're perfectly right, I'll touch it up somehow later. The plotter refused to cut it well, I don't know why.


Here I've shot a coat of blue...


...then peeling away the masks! I'll mask the blue and paint the red in the fin flash tomorrow, better letting it harden thoroughly since there is quite a bit of surface to cover!



Magnus
Joel_W
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: December 04, 2010
entire network: 7,751 Posts
KitMaker Network: 94 Posts
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 - 05:27 AM UTC
Magnus,
Impressive to say the least. The national insignias and codes look perfect, and it does remove any chances of silvering or flash.

Joel
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Monday, January 09, 2017 - 02:57 AM UTC
Jelger! Thanks! I think the small fuselage serials are close to the maximum complexity that the machine can handle for the time being (see below for more on the subject!). I've made the transition slowly towards more and more painted markings over the years but they have all been cut by hand, this is the next step in that process!

Thomas! I'm glad you like it! If you start being nice immediately I'm sure that something can be negotiated with Santa for next Christmas ! The foil I use was recommended by Mal a few years ago, it's called Oramask 810. It is a dedicated masking film that comes on a backing paper and it can be fed through the machine as it is. I've also obtained a roll of film that is used mainly for decoration of vehicles, this is thinner but also stickier and stiffer, I hope that I will be able to cut smaller and more intricate designs from that material. Finally, I've bought a few A4 sheets of a Tamiya-tape-like material that I will try out later on.

Mal! If you want a set of masks I'll post them to you for free (and a few spares as well)! You really were the great inspiration for getting my own machine and you've always been very friendly and generous with advice.

There is a "sticky mat" that comes with the machine, I haven't used it yet since the Oramask film feeds nicely through the machine without the need for it. I am sure though that whenever "the girls" (there's three of them at home, one big and two smaller ) find out that they can use the Cameo for scrapbooking purposes I will have to use the sticky mat since the papers they use are thinner and more slippery!

I don't think the cutter accepts DXF directly but Silhouette Studio (the software that comes with it) reads DXF. Studio is however remarkably powerful in its own right so that's the only software I've used for creating designs as of yet! If I was fluent in any vector graphics program (which I'm not ), that would probably be even more powerful to use!



Magnus
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 30, 2002
entire network: 8,248 Posts
KitMaker Network: 943 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 08, 2017 - 08:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

... ahh, btw: may I ask what kind of masking foil did you use? And is it only a plain selfadhesive foil or is some additional "transfer paper" needed?
Thanks, Thomas

P.S.Mal: If you read this, please feel free to comment or answer about that matter...



I believe that these type of cutters use a bed on which the medium is placed. I also believe that it has a sticky base so that you can cut card and paper. For cutting paint masks you need a film that has a backing sheet (which is silicone paper) and I believe that you can dispense with the sticky bed, or change it? so that the foil with backing can be used. Anyway I would recommend Artool Ultra Mask It is arguabley as good as the stuff that I use but cannot be bought on a 50m roll (I used it in 10 metre rolls for a few years), as you can see you can buy it in A4 sheets that will(?) fit the platen on the Cameo machine. Or you can buy the roll and cut it for yourself?
You don't need any separate material for the the "transfer tape" ("paper"). Actual Transfer tape has far too higher tack. So I use the same material that I cut the masks from, or you can use Tamiya Tape, or similar. Such as Kip tape. Note that on this list "Washi" tape is what Tamiya "Kubaki" tape is! Kabuki/Kubaki is the wrong name

On a personal note, well a note for Millie She is quite happy to supply you guys with files for your cutters when you all feel the need I'm assuming that the cutter will take any DXF file Magnus?
goodn8
Visit this Community
Berlin, Germany
Member Since: October 12, 2008
entire network: 360 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 09:52 PM UTC
... ahh, btw: may I ask what kind of masking foil did you use? And is it only a plain selfadhesive foil or is some additional "transfer paper" needed?
Thanks, Thomas

P.S.Mal: If you read this, please feel free to comment or answer about that matter...
goodn8
Visit this Community
Berlin, Germany
Member Since: October 12, 2008
entire network: 360 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 09:09 PM UTC
Absolutely brilliant, Magnus!
Followed up this thread since your start and always be impressed by each update.
Famous paint job on both the camo and the NFM - looking great. And the masked markings are spot on and a real step foreward. Quite jealous about your cutter and will definetely put one my whish list.
Thomas
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: September 30, 2002
entire network: 8,248 Posts
KitMaker Network: 943 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 07:40 PM UTC
Very nicely done Magnus, one day a cutter will be on every modellers tool list just like an airbrush

You should sell the camo masks I may even have a set myself as I may just build one of these
spaarndammer
Visit this Community
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Member Since: January 28, 2007
entire network: 1,911 Posts
KitMaker Network: 14 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 07:30 PM UTC
Impressive work on your painting. I am especially surprised by the quality of the serials as these numbers are quite small in 1/72.

I think it must be very nice to have the Cameo 3 machine available for your modelling as it offers to plenty of options to use markings instead of decals.



Jelger
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,487 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 07, 2017 - 07:06 PM UTC
Back to business as usual after the Christmas and New Year holidays, I really hope that 2017 turns out better than 2016 modelling-wise!


As I told you earlier, I had high hopes for Christmas this year and thanks to me having been EXTREMELY NICE during most of 2016 (if I remember correctly at least since late November or so...), Santa delivered! I got a Silhouette Cameo 3 from him and immediately started experimenting with it, the result of which you can see above! I've done all the standard British marking (roundels and fin flashes) and the serials, both the big ones below the wings and the small ones on the fuselage using masks.


Masking underway for the rest of the markings! The pink tape is a standard Tesa masking tape for indoor use on sensitive surfaces that I found at the hardware store: safe, easy and cheap!


Quite OK!


Underwing serials without that dreaded clear decal film!


That other Lightning is also alive and well! Preparing for the blue spine and fin.

Regarding the Cameo 3 machine, it is aimed at scrapbookers and the price is set at what I think a reasonable level. It comes with an easy-to-use (remember that I am a CAD-rat by trade before taking that for granted but I think that anyone used to some kind of graphics program and with enough interest could learn to use it in a reasonable time) software (called Silhouette Studio) for drawing you designs. I scanned the decals in Photoshop, imported them into Silhouette Studio and used them as a background for drawing my own design. The Cameo itself communicates via USB (or bluetooth, I haven't tried that yet though) and was easy to both set up and use.



Magnus