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The Creation of a Work Station
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Wednesday, October 04, 2017 - 02:04 AM UTC
Hello Gents!!

While I am still new to the ship building scene, I need some advice. I need to create a work station and I plan on building full hull 1/700 scale models. My question is: What would you see as being an absolute must for this station?

I already have been looking at a sturdy table, magnifying glass and some lights, but what would you guys see as being a must have? Certain glues? Paints? Brushes and airbrushes? etc, etc, etc.

I appreciate any insight on my future hobby so I can share my completed projects!!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 03:22 AM UTC
Some way of organising tools and paint bottles/tins.

Some tool for marking waterlines could come in handy (or cutting masking tape at a consistent height).

Glue: I don't use glue. I have found that "glueing" with solvents, like ethyl acetate, works a lot better for me.
Hold the parts together (dry fit until you are happy with the fit). Apply a small amout of solvent to the joint. The solvent will enter the joint by capillary action. Sometimes it can be seen as a wet "flash" along the joint. Apply a little more if it doesn't go all the way along the joint.
Nail polish removers that do NOT contain acetone usually contain ethyl acetate.

Robin
Scarred
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Posted: Sunday, October 08, 2017 - 07:31 PM UTC
Clamps. Different types, styles and size. I use clothes pins, c clamps, small bar clamps, alligator clips, you name it it's clamped somewhere within arms reach, usually on my lamp arm.
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 02:37 AM UTC
Been a while since I have looked into this thread!! I have a place to put my workstation now!!

I will be getting a table and a office light with magnification. Still have not picked out any glue/paint/brushes/etc but I am getting there!! Any info I get is so hopeful!
retiredyank
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 03:51 AM UTC
Mixing cups or a pallette are a must(whether it be to hold paint, glue, or small parts). If you go the pallette route, wrap aluminum foil around it for easier clean up. For glue application, I recommend cutting the tip of the eye of a needle off. The "U" will hold a small amount of glue or cement, which can then be touched to the joint. I also have a seem scraper from Squadron. You can use the tip of a #11 blade for this. However, I am very happy, with the purpose made tool. Amazon and eBay are your friends. You can usually find what you are looking for in an off brand. Putty is another must. I prefer Bondo auto body filler. It can be smoothed, with a cotton swab(another must) dampened with water and does not shrink much. Pick up some spongy nail files, from the dollar store or online. The last thing are toothpicks. These can be used for a variety of reasons. This is by no means meant to be a comprehensive list, but does include what I would want to start with.
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 02:32 AM UTC
Thanks for the reply!!

I have already started getting materials. I have a lamp with magnifying glass on its way, a modeling mat and some different types of glues. Figure once I decide on my first ship, I will start ordering paint.

What about Airbrushes? I have zero experience using them but love the result. Figure I should look into that too.
retiredyank
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 03:45 AM UTC
I prefer a double action, gravity fed brush. I have been using the Badger Renegade Krome, for a few years. I actually bought a newer one, only to find out that it exactly the same, except for the size of the paint cup. Iwata HP-C is also a nice brush. However, I haven't touched one, in years. Something else to look out for is the tip. You want one that is made of steel. Brass tips tend to get damaged, easily. If you are going to airbrush, you will also want a mask. I used paper masks for some time. I thought I was fine, but developed a sinus infection. I found one, with filters, on Amazon for $20.
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Wednesday, February 28, 2018 - 11:19 PM UTC
While I am a little anxious about getting into some of the airbrushing things, does Tamiya rattle can work well? I am not looking for museum quality work, but I do have experience with a can. Just curious.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 03:06 AM UTC
If I had the choice I would go for the airbrush, it's a lot easier to control compared to a rattle can.
Just my opinion though ....
/ Robin
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 05:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

If I had the choice I would go for the airbrush, it's a lot easier to control compared to a rattle can.
Just my opinion though ....
/ Robin



Well the difference is trying to convince the wife. Its easier to get a $7 can of paint as opposed to a $100 airbrush.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 08:33 AM UTC
Here's the thing about that-- you may need to repeatedly buy cans of paint at $7-$8 bucks a pop. And the most you can get for that is about 11-12 colors. With an airbrush and a $4 bottle of paint, you can get many colors and shades by mixing.
You'll still need a source for air with an airbrush. That'll cost you another $100-$200, but in the long run, it would be worth it, and a huge savings down the road if you intend to model for a while.
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 03:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If I had the choice I would go for the airbrush, it's a lot easier to control compared to a rattle can.
Just my opinion though ....
/ Robin



Well the difference is trying to convince the wife. Its easier to get a $7 can of paint as opposed to a $100 airbrush.



Hundred bucks will go a long way when getting an airbrush.
Check ebay ...
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/dual-action-airbrush
An airbrush which is better and easier to handle than rattle cans can be bought for a lot less than $100

Badger 150 (costs less than two average 1/35 armour kits or 10 rattle cans + postage from Sterling, Virginia)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BADGER-Airbrush-Model-150-2-F-Dual-Action-with-Fine-Nozzle-22-mm-Siphon-feed/122992284064?hash=item1ca2e951a0:g:A38AAOSwuWNalihm

See the post by Russ above about the long term economics ...
/ Robin
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 09:04 PM UTC
Thanks for the comments guys. I am at your mercy when it comes to this. It has been years since I have picked up a model. Now I am looking at airbrushes. HAHA

...maybe I'll get the wife a new phone in exchange for some airbrushing supplies.

I want to get back into this hobby in the worst way. I miss the time it takes and the ability to craft something special with your own hands. So by this, I really appreciate the time you guys have taken in answering my newbie questions.

Ok, So I got a desk, a mat, a light, and I need to pick up some tweezers, airbrush and some other misc tools. Then I get to pick a ship to start on.

If you can't tell, I am really excited to get started!!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 09:25 PM UTC
Just a few more pointers:

Nippers or Side cutters!
Very useful tool! For me it meant a huges savings on bandages and band-aids. Instead of the repeatedly slicing into my thumb and fingertips with the scalpel I now snip the parts off the sprues with the side cutters. Select a type where the cutting edges look like this _/_ instead of this ><
The flat side will direct the force of the cut to one side so that the plastic in the part isn't stretched. Practice cutting sprues before cutting into sensitive/fragile parts.

Needle files. Stop cutting and scraping with a knife, X-acto or scalpel. Use fine files to get rid of moulding flash, remnants of injection gates or sprue attachment points.

Knife, X-acto, scalpel or whatever sharp edged tool you own: Save it for the very few cases when nothing else will work. It save a lot of work/cost for keeping the tool sharp.

Glue: Consider using a solvent to "glue" styrene,
this stuff is perfect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate
Hold parts together, apply small amount to joint with a small brush. let capillary action do the job, release parts after half a minute or a minute. If the parts don't fit tightly enough for capillary action to work you need to check the fit and/or apply force to hold the parts together. sometimes the little buggers are warped.

Heavy duty removal of parts or excess material:
Fret saw! It will get into the most inaccessible places to make that small precise cut and can be used to take out large chunks of plastic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretsaw
Don't go hacking with that razor sharp hobby knife (You haven't dulled it yet have you? See above.) to remove plastic. Drill a small hole and fret away.

Once you start airbrushing you will realise how much better coverage yoou get for less paint used. The airbrush actually saves on paint.

Whatever you do, use the Correct thinner for the type of paint you use. Even if it says Acrylic it doesn't mean that you can use water. Two brands of acrylic may not work with the same type of thinner. Ask here first.

/ Robin
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 09:42 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Just a few more pointers:

Nippers or Side cutters!
Very useful tool! For me it meant a huges savings on bandages and band-aids. Instead of the repeatedly slicing into my thumb and fingertips with the scalpel I now snip the parts off the sprues with the side cutters. Select a type where the cutting edges look like this _/_ instead of this ><
The flat side will direct the force of the cut to one side so that the plastic in the part isn't stretched. Practice cutting sprues before cutting into sensitive/fragile parts.

Needle files. Stop cutting and scraping with a knife, X-acto or scalpel. Use fine files to get rid of moulding flash, remnants of injection gates or sprue attachment points.

Knife, X-acto, scalpel or whatever sharp edged tool you own: Save it for the very few cases when nothing else will work. It save a lot of work/cost for keeping the tool sharp.

Glue: Consider using a solvent to "glue" styrene,
this stuff is perfect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethyl_acetate
Hold parts together, apply small amount to joint with a small brush. let capillary action do the job, release parts after half a minute or a minute. If the parts don't fit tightly enough for capillary action to work you need to check the fit and/or apply force to hold the parts together. sometimes the little buggers are warped.

Heavy duty removal of parts or excess material:
Fret saw! It will get into the most inaccessible places to make that small precise cut and can be used to take out large chunks of plastic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretsaw
Don't go hacking with that razor sharp hobby knife (You haven't dulled it yet have you? See above.) to remove plastic. Drill a small hole and fret away.

Once you start airbrushing you will realise how much better coverage yoou get for less paint used. The airbrush actually saves on paint.

Whatever you do, use the Correct thinner for the type of paint you use. Even if it says Acrylic it doesn't mean that you can use water. Two brands of acrylic may not work with the same type of thinner. Ask here first.

/ Robin



Would these types of side cutters work?
https://www.amazon.com/Eurotool-XTL-0048-Cutter-Pliers-Jewelry/dp/B002SZVE8M

I am assuming a tiny fretsaw would do, so that's easy to find. Same with needle files.

This is coming along nicely. Just wish I had more hobby stores in my area.
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 10:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

If I had the choice I would go for the airbrush, it's a lot easier to control compared to a rattle can.
Just my opinion though ....
/ Robin



Well the difference is trying to convince the wife. Its easier to get a $7 can of paint as opposed to a $100 airbrush.



Hundred bucks will go a long way when getting an airbrush.
Check ebay ...
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/dual-action-airbrush
An airbrush which is better and easier to handle than rattle cans can be bought for a lot less than $100

Badger 150 (costs less than two average 1/35 armour kits or 10 rattle cans + postage from Sterling, Virginia)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BADGER-Airbrush-Model-150-2-F-Dual-Action-with-Fine-Nozzle-22-mm-Siphon-feed/122992284064?hash=item1ca2e951a0:g:A38AAOSwuWNalihm

See the post by Russ above about the long term economics ...
/ Robin



That's a nice looking airbrush. So is a dual action with syphon what you would recommend? I see many different types with gravity feed and such. Sorry about all the questions. I am just happy someone is responding!!!
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 11:09 PM UTC
Those cutters will do the job. Don't use them on metal wire though. With some care and practice you can hone them when needed.

Airbrushes.
Buy a dual action. Press the trigger to control the flow of air. On the expensive airbrushes you can actually control the flow, on the cheaper ones it's mostly an on/off function but the real control over the air pressure is done by the pressure regulating valve on the compressor.
Siphon or gravity: I started with siphon feed and it works for most purposes. The gravity feed comes into play when working with small details and/or low air pressure.
Buy a gravity feed since it will do both jobs. The size of the cup doesn't matter, refill it when needed instead of hauling a large cup around.

Compressor: This can be expensive depending on your circumstances. There are "silent" as in "as much noise as your fridge" and then there is nosiy on the level of "I want to leave the room". The importnt thing is to get one with a tank, don't waste money on a small one without a tank. With a large tank and a noisy compressor you can let it fill up and then shut off the compressor and use the pressure in the tank and spray very silently. A "cheap" garage type compressor will work for this. If you really need it to be silent at all times, live in an apartment with neighbours allergic to sounds, then you may need to consider a silent airbrush compressor. This one fits into the noisy group at 80 dBA
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bostitch-BTFP02012-6-Gallon-150-PSI-Oil-Free-Compressor/45703744
Comparison chart for noise levels:
http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm
A hundred bucks buys you an unlimited supply of noisy air.
From maybe 300 to 500 dollars gets you silent air.
If I had a garage I would get a noisy one and run a hose to the hobby workshop.

/ Robin
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 11:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Those cutters will do the job. Don't use them on metal wire though. With some care and practice you can hone them when needed.

Airbrushes.
Buy a dual action. Press the trigger to control the flow of air. On the expensive airbrushes you can actually control the flow, on the cheaper ones it's mostly an on/off function but the real control over the air pressure is done by the pressure regulating valve on the compressor.
Siphon or gravity: I started with siphon feed and it works for most purposes. The gravity feed comes into play when working with small details and/or low air pressure.
Buy a gravity feed since it will do both jobs. The size of the cup doesn't matter, refill it when needed instead of hauling a large cup around.

Compressor: This can be expensive depending on your circumstances. There are "silent" as in "as much noise as your fridge" and then there is nosiy on the level of "I want to leave the room". The importnt thing is to get one with a tank, don't waste money on a small one without a tank. With a large tank and a noisy compressor you can let it fill up and then shut off the compressor and use the pressure in the tank and spray very silently. A "cheap" garage type compressor will work for this. If you really need it to be silent at all times, live in an apartment with neighbours allergic to sounds, then you may need to consider a silent airbrush compressor. This one fits into the noisy group at 80 dBA
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bostitch-BTFP02012-6-Gallon-150-PSI-Oil-Free-Compressor/45703744
Comparison chart for noise levels:
http://www.industrialnoisecontrol.com/comparative-noise-examples.htm
A hundred bucks buys you an unlimited supply of noisy air.
From maybe 300 to 500 dollars gets you silent air.
If I had a garage I would get a noisy one and run a hose to the hobby workshop.

/ Robin



Thanks Robin!! Well the good news is a lot of gravity duel actions ones are pretty darn affordable. I have my own office for building so noise wouldn't be much of an issue. I'll get a small one with a tank and then test it A LOT on spare parts before putting paint to hull. So much good info. I don't know how I can thank you enough for putting up with me.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 11:34 PM UTC
When you decide on an airbrush try to pick one where you can switch the size of the needle. Sets with heads and needles.
For 1/700 warships the surfaces will not be so large so the fine and medium sizes will cover your needs.

A large chunk of personal preference: Stay very very far away from Aztec airbrushes.
A long needle means better precision in how the airbrush sprays and the Aztecs have needles that less than 1/4 inch long ...
/ Robin
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Thursday, March 01, 2018 - 11:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

When you decide on an airbrush try to pick one where you can switch the size of the needle. Sets with heads and needles.
For 1/700 warships the surfaces will not be so large so the fine and medium sizes will cover your needs.

A large chunk of personal preference: Stay very very far away from Aztec airbrushes.
A long needle means better precision in how the airbrush sprays and the Aztecs have needles that less than 1/4 inch long ...
/ Robin



So a brush with available heads and needles, got it. Stay away from Aztek, loud and clear!! Time to browse Amazon with all this great info!
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 12:26 AM UTC
Charlie,
Robin has given some great advice. Here's the only thing I'd add- don't by the cheap stuff just because it's cheap-- start with high quality tools, and learn to use them. I used to work in a LHS, and saw many disappointed and discouraged customers who were starting out for the first time, or coming back to the hobby after a long absence. The main culprit in their misery was they purchased cheap tools, especially airbrushes and compressors, and were very dissatisfied with the results, or couldn't get their tools to work properly (especially what I'd call junk airbrushes). If you have a good quality tool, and get some advice on how to use it, you're much better off than wasting money on bad tools in the first place, then having to replace them, or giving up because you think the problem is you. Take it from a 65 year old guy who has been through at least 25 airbrushes in his life, and countless other tools-- I wish I'd taken my own advice 40 years ago--but I was trying to get buy "on the cheap" so I could buy more kits (and another piece of advice--stay away from Harbor Freight--as a general rule, although I occasional find something useful there--very occasionally).
VR, Russ
ChurchSTSV
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 12:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Charlie,
Robin has given some great advice. Here's the only thing I'd add- don't by the cheap stuff just because it's cheap-- start with high quality tools, and learn to use them. I used to work in a LHS, and saw many disappointed and discouraged customers who were starting out for the first time, or coming back to the hobby after a long absence. The main culprit in their misery was they purchased cheap tools, especially airbrushes and compressors, and were very dissatisfied with the results, or couldn't get their tools to work properly (especially what I'd call junk airbrushes). If you have a good quality tool, and get some advice on how to use it, you're much better off than wasting money on bad tools in the first place, then having to replace them, or giving up because you think the problem is you. Take it from a 65 year old guy who has been through at least 25 airbrushes in his life, and countless other tools-- I wish I'd taken my own advice 40 years ago--but I was trying to get buy "on the cheap" so I could buy more kits (and another piece of advice--stay away from Harbor Freight--as a general rule, although I occasional find something useful there--very occasionally).
VR, Russ



I went to Harbor Freight once. Once. I had to get a screwdriver set that had a tri-headed bit to take apart a Nintendo Wii. I think that was 2012. So I hear ya.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 12:50 AM UTC
I started with a Kager (Korean copy of a Badger 150) with slightly less precision and cheap O-ring seals instead of a Teflon washer. It was less than half the price of the Badger and did what I expected of it.
Then I decided that I needed more precision, once I got some practice, and upgraded to a Badger 150.
I have been happy with the Badger, bought a gravity feed Badger later and then a second hand top-notch Olympus.
The cheap ones will cover a surface but will probably not do fine lines and free hand camouflage patterns.
On 1/700 warships you will need hard edges anyway so masking will be the only way.

The general rule still applies though: You get what you pay for.

/ Robin
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2018 - 01:04 AM UTC
Yep-- Robin is right. I have three go-to airbrushes on my workbench. A Paasche Millenium, A Badger IL, and a Peak C5. All are double action (I learned the hard way just to buy the DA, and learn to use it after a long series of SA's). The Paasche I use for general painting, the Badger is tuned for medium paint finishes with feathered edges, and the Peak is my "fine liner". But with the newer Badgers and Iwata's and others, you can combine some of the features you need into one brush. As for Harbor Freight-- Ive found two useful tools in 10 years-- a set of very fine drill bits (hand use only, they snap off in a Dremel) and a set of miniature diamond cut off wheels). But a lot of the disappointed modelers I talked to when I was in the LHS business were bringing me problems with Harbor Freight airbrushes and compressors--my advice was to get rid of it and buy a quality tool. My final advice-- go look in the Micro-Mark catalog--they've got about everything you need.
VR, Russ