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For general automotive modeling or non-modeling topics.
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Porsche campaign anyone?
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - 03:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Drabslab welcome to the campaign.

Gabriel and Joel,
As Iím new to the high gloss finish Iím learning from the internet/YouTube and from yourselves, thankfully my Porsche wonít need a high gloss finish so gives me plenty of time to look for a cheap airbrush as I donít fancy putting it down either my Iwata trigger or my H&S Infinity Evo (even if I could get that to work).

Gabriel, Iíll check Paulís latest YouTube for that 2K video.




Luciano,
I've seen plenty of car vid where guys shoot 2k all the time with the top of the line air Brushes and never post about any issues. But with my luck, I'll be the 1st.

For body primer, paint, and clear coat, half the vids from guys like the Lone Wolf, Dr. Crankie, and others just use the old Passche H, #3 setup with the needle opened about halfway, and just even light coats. their work is world class. Of course they've been doing this for as many years if not longer then we've been at military modeling.

Even Paul Budzik recommends a Single Action Internal airbrush for car body painting and clear work. The problem is that Grex and Iwata stopped making them. One of the reasons I bought the Grex over the Iwata Eclipse is that the Grex has a manual adjustment in the back so I can use it like a single action AB. Unfortunately, you still need to clean it like a double action AB.

Joel
Littorio
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Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - 02:57 AM UTC
Drabslab welcome to the campaign.

Gabriel and Joel,
As Iím new to the high gloss finish Iím learning from the internet/YouTube and from yourselves, thankfully my Porsche wonít need a high gloss finish so gives me plenty of time to look for a cheap airbrush as I donít fancy putting it down either my Iwata trigger or my H&S Infinity Evo (even if I could get that to work).

Gabriel, Iíll check Paulís latest YouTube for that 2K video.
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - 02:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I got myself a Porsche

Sale 1/24 Fujimi Porsche 911 Turbo 1985.

Wow, that looks very different from an airplane. This will require some learning




Drabslab,
Looking forward to your build blog.

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 - 01:55 AM UTC
Gabriel,
Well said. I've been looking for a motorized polisher, as my old fingers and hands cramp up fairly quickly these days. Your 2K polished spoon looks fantastic.

While watching Paul's video, I did note that he mentioned the Air Brush he's using is dedicated solely for 2K finishes. Not sure as to the cost of that unit, nor it's quality, but his cleaning method isn't one that I'd follow.

I have two Grex Air Brushes because I'm just plain lazy. One is with a .3mm setup and the other with a .5mm. I could have just switched one back and forth as needed, but I'm just to lazy, and it's time consuming for sure. Even the Iwata (Sparmax made)compressor has two completely separate setups with regulators and gauges for two air brushes, so I don't even need the quick change adapters I have attached. Neither Air Brush would I ever consider shooting 2K through out of plain fear of damaging them.

I do have a old Paasche H that I could experiment with, as the worst that could happen is that the cup, needle, & cone would be to be replaced, which wouldn't be the 1st time I've had to do that. Or I could use my Iwata M2 single action AB. The cup really isn't large enough for clear coating as I've found out, and the needle tends to close down from vibration so I use Bees wax on the threads. So I do have other options.

Paul did talk about the MRP 2 part 2K system which is half the price of the 3 part system from Gravity and Zero paints. I'd love to test it out, but the issue for me is that MRP paints uses a single distributor per country. And in the USA that Hobbyworld-USA. I've had dealings with him for years, and his out of stocks especially on MRP paints and products can run for months to a year or so. and buying MRP paints from Hiro Boy in England is very, and I mean very expensive.


Joel
drabslab
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2018 - 08:58 PM UTC
I got myself a Porsche

Sale 1/24 Fujimi Porsche 911 Turbo 1985.

Wow, that looks very different from an airplane. This will require some learning

Szmann
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2018 - 02:37 PM UTC
I have to agree with Joel about all he wrote regarding the surface preparation and the main steps on achieving a "perfect" gloss.
The risk on one's health and the damage can cause on the airbrush have also to be taken into consideration when choosing the clear coat. But once the acrylic coats dismissed (too soft to get a good finish), all you have left is pretty nasty: lacquers, polyurethanes or 2K. I have used lacquers with good results but I had bad events too. On my Ducatti Panigale I had to redo one side cowling four times: three times because of runs, one time for a shot decal - I assume the fault for all instances. I switched to solvent based polyurethanes because they have less tendency to run and they are milder on the decals. But, again, they are not trouble free. They're very sensitive to timing between coats: if you're too early - they run; if you're too late, they jelly up and bead up. Besides, they have a tendency to yellow if applied too thick. Now, 2K seems to have solved at list partially some issues of the former two and is hardest of all - hence shiniest of all. On the negatives, the prices are not friendly, the mixing procedures complicated and it can ruin your beloved A/B (I not dare think what drama will be to ruin my H&S Infinity for a bloody clear coat!) Tough choices.

Michael and Luciano: you are mostly welcome guys! I'm glad to share my experiences with you! I needed to try it for myself nonetheless! Yes, Luciano I follow Paul from ISM as well and I knew his technique. Coincidentally, moments after I have read your post, he uploaded a new video dedicated to a 2K brand.

I have performed one last test today: I wanted to know how well 2K stands the rotary tool. I bought my Proxxon a while ago but we didn't make best friends at first: the acrylic coats are too soft for it and peel off. I had big hopes with the polyurethane but the experience shown that actually I can get better finish by hand - the one achieved with the help of the machine was very smooth but somewhat hazy - it was lacking sharpness. Well, 2K is a different story:

Left: Alclad Aqua Gloss
Center: 2K, unpolished
Right: 2K, machine polished with Novus 2 Fine Scratch Remover.
I consider the performance quite good because no elaborate preparations were made and I used only a single coat of 2K. If I'll get to repeat the performance over a well prepared surface (as described by Joel) then the finish will be even better and me a happy modeler. The only problem I see is that the surface of the model is bigger than the surface of a spoon and so more difficult to achieve a flawless saturation coat... to be seen.

Cheers!
Gabriel
Joel_W
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Posted: Monday, October 15, 2018 - 03:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel nice tests and thank you for doing them.

Now this may be old news for some of you but I found this YouTube video on how to apply 2K clear and for me it is very useful as Iíve never used it before.

Anyway HERE is the link see what you think.




Luciano,
Thanks for the link. I watched his vid from start to completion. While I've never used any of the 2Ks out there, my greatest concern was damage to my new two Grex Air Brushes. Grex doesn't by any means go along with how he cleans his air brushes. For starters, needles are always supposed to be pulled through the back, not out the front as there are groves in the ends for ID purposes that can damage the seals. I've been also concerned with the 2K drying in the Air Brush causing more issues.

So for me I've tested quite a few of the model Gloss clears. By far Mr. Hobby's Lacquer clear gloss is my weapon of choice with their self leveling thinner. I start with 50:50 tack coat, 2nd tack coat, 10% more Thinner for 1st wet coat, 2nd wet coat, 10 % more Thinner for the final Wet coat. I leave just 5 min between tack coats, and 10 min between wet coats, then 24 hrs to dry and cure.

I've never had nor heard of anyone using the Mr. Hobby products report any decal issues unless the went with a heavy wet coat to start with.

Now comes the 3,000 sponge grit wet, followed by Gravity's 3 parts polishing system, and finally their Carnauba wax. The surface is smooth as silk and a mile deep shine.

Talk to any custom body shop painter (we actually have one in my home town!!), and they'll tell you that the secret to a perfect paint job is every step gets rubbed out to a smooth finish but needs some texture for the next coat to grip to. That's primer, then color, then clearcoat.

Will my lacquer process give as deep and clear finish as a 2K one? Most likely close but not equal. Yet, for me the process works, and honestly spending $22 plus shipping for either the Zero or Gravity systems is just nuts.

Joel
Littorio
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 10:06 PM UTC
Gabriel nice tests and thank you for doing them.

Now this may be old news for some of you but I found this YouTube video on how to apply 2K clear and for me it is very useful as Iíve never used it before.

Anyway HERE is the link see what you think.
Cosimodo
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 09:06 PM UTC
Nice tests Gabriel. That gloss coat looks amazing! Something else I will have to try in the future.

cheers
Michael
Cosimodo
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 09:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Here is the Porsche interior. Not too many parts and lacks a bit of detail but as this is a first effort for cars for a long, long time I will leave as it comes. Tamiya suggested everything be painted semi-gloss black so I mixed those up a bit with three different blacks using, semi, Nato and tyre.





So now to the exterior where I have had an issue. I originally bought the Tamiya rattle can for this, TS Cobalt Green but since as stated elsewhere, since for cars, 70% of the job is in the finish I though i would try some specialist paint. I saw Joel was using Gravity paints so I gave them a try and ordered some Vaillant green. I should have read Joel's post a little closer as now I have learnt there are two Gravity paint suppliers. Gravity.com and Gravity-com. the first based in the US and the second in Spain. I ordered with the US one five weeks ago and they took my money and said it was in "processing". After 4 weeks I followed up with a query but got no response. This is when I found out about the back story of the two Gravity.(Google is your friend) So if I don't get a response from the US in a few days I will ask PayPal for my money back and try Gravity of Spain which is where I think I should have started.

cheers

Michael





Michael,
The interior looks great. You nailed the colors and finish perfectly. I'm just not a fan of pure black as it's just to stark for an in scale effect. I use Nato black or Mig Ammo black primer which as a gray tint to it. Looks so much better. You can also now use a back panel line wash and see the results.

I much prefer the flat finish to a semi gloss finish as I've never seen the interior of a race car being anything but flat, and somewhat dirty. the seat or seats can be shiny if they're leather, as that's what leather does. But in this case it's a plastic composite, and dull flat is definitely the right way to go.

Matte has got to be the worst businessman I've yet come across. He's trying to do this part time, work a full time job, and is down to no employees. The ever growing list of unhappy and dissatisfied customers just keeps on growing. Like so many others I gave up sending emails, that are never answered, and a order that was just marked "processing". I opened up a Pay Pal complaint, and he never even answered them. It took 10 days but I got my money back. The last time I checked, my order is still marked as on Hold. Use Gravity-Spain. They're fantastic in every sense of the word.


Joel



Thanks Joel, and thanks for the information on Gravity US. It's good to have understanding of what's happening there.

cheers
Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 04:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Great progress on the Pearl effect issue. What you came up with makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking that the Copper base just might be the right way to go



Thanks, Joel! Any choice will be decent after all, but I am aware that pearlcoats have some translucent properties and I wanted to make the most of it. Yes, copper will be the choice, because the clear coat will amplify the underneath reflection. Hard to see on camera, but with naked eye you can catch that extra glitter underneath.

I couldn't help myself but to try my new 2K clear coat, of which I promised you I'm going to keep updated:



Please note that was no preparation whatsoever, just spraying single consecutive coats of primer, pearlcoat, 2K with a crappy airbrush like Neo for Iwata CN. The gloss is there and it's nearly perfect. I need to figure out the best method to polish it right now.

What I noted right away: 2K doesn't have the tendency to bead up like acrylics coats or to run like solvent based polyurethane. It just stick there! On the downside: it stinks to high heaven (well, I'm used to it from my polyurethanes) and everything turns sticky - you cannot postpone cleaning your A/B!

Cheers!
Gabriel




Gabriel,
Your 2K clear looks great and is certainly the right way to go. I've got 9 bottles of Mr. Hobby Super Gloss to use up 1st. One thing I'm really leery of is the 2K drying in my new Grex air brush ( I just bought 2 of them: one with a .3mm setup and the other with a .5mm setup).

Joel
Szmann
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 03:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gabriel,
Great progress on the Pearl effect issue. What you came up with makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking that the Copper base just might be the right way to go



Thanks, Joel! Any choice will be decent after all, but I am aware that pearlcoats have some translucent properties and I wanted to make the most of it. Yes, copper will be the choice, because the clear coat will amplify the underneath reflection. Hard to see on camera, but with naked eye you can catch that extra glitter underneath.

I couldn't help myself but to try my new 2K clear coat, of which I promised you I'm going to keep updated:



Please note that was no preparation whatsoever, just spraying single consecutive coats of primer, pearlcoat, 2K with a crappy airbrush like Neo for Iwata CN. The gloss is there and it's nearly perfect. I need to figure out the best method to polish it right now.

What I noted right away: 2K doesn't have the tendency to bead up like acrylics coats or to run like solvent based polyurethane. It just stick there! On the downside: it stinks to high heaven (well, I'm used to it from my polyurethanes) and everything turns sticky - you cannot postpone cleaning your A/B!

Cheers!
Gabriel

Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 02:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael, that is some nice progress there. So far so great!

Luciano, that's a very interesting choice of Porsche for sure! I cannot wait to see the development!

UPDATE (sort of)

I'm not ready yet for the campaign - I haven't finished my Mack and the other build slot on my table is taken with various campaigns until February I guess. But! Because I was confined at home by the bad weather today, I found some time to do my customary paint tests. The base color for this build I chose long time ago: Tru-Color TCP-755 Carbon Flash Pearlcoat, but I wasn't sure about the undercoat. Being a "pearlcoat", the paint behaves better on a metallic finish... but which one?
I have sprayed four plastic spoons with Mr. Finishing Surfacer 1500 black. I kept one like that, and the other three were sprayed with various metallics from the same Rust-oleum range:


In top of them I applied afterwards TCP-755:


To my surprise, the one with only primer shows the lighter tone. Anyhow, I have decided for the copper undercoat. I was not worried about the gloss at this time, so I didn't bother polishing the metallics - I just wanted to know the tonal variations. Probably in the original build I am going to spray a clear gloss in top of the metallic, polish it, and only after apply the pearlcoat.

Note to myself: with only a single coat of pearl over the black primer, a very nice matte black with "scale effect" is achieved.

Hopefully I will join you soon.
Cheers!
Gabriel



Gabriel,
Great progress on the Pearl effect issue. What you came up with makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking that the Copper base just might be the right way to go

Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, October 14, 2018 - 02:11 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Here is the Porsche interior. Not too many parts and lacks a bit of detail but as this is a first effort for cars for a long, long time I will leave as it comes. Tamiya suggested everything be painted semi-gloss black so I mixed those up a bit with three different blacks using, semi, Nato and tyre.





So now to the exterior where I have had an issue. I originally bought the Tamiya rattle can for this, TS Cobalt Green but since as stated elsewhere, since for cars, 70% of the job is in the finish I though i would try some specialist paint. I saw Joel was using Gravity paints so I gave them a try and ordered some Vaillant green. I should have read Joel's post a little closer as now I have learnt there are two Gravity paint suppliers. Gravity.com and Gravity-com. the first based in the US and the second in Spain. I ordered with the US one five weeks ago and they took my money and said it was in "processing". After 4 weeks I followed up with a query but got no response. This is when I found out about the back story of the two Gravity.(Google is your friend) So if I don't get a response from the US in a few days I will ask PayPal for my money back and try Gravity of Spain which is where I think I should have started.

cheers

Michael





Michael,
The interior looks great. You nailed the colors and finish perfectly. I'm just not a fan of pure black as it's just to stark for an in scale effect. I use Nato black or Mig Ammo black primer which as a gray tint to it. Looks so much better. You can also now use a back panel line wash and see the results.

I much prefer the flat finish to a semi gloss finish as I've never seen the interior of a race car being anything but flat, and somewhat dirty. the seat or seats can be shiny if they're leather, as that's what leather does. But in this case it's a plastic composite, and dull flat is definitely the right way to go.

Matte has got to be the worst businessman I've yet come across. He's trying to do this part time, work a full time job, and is down to no employees. The ever growing list of unhappy and dissatisfied customers just keeps on growing. Like so many others I gave up sending emails, that are never answered, and a order that was just marked "processing". I opened up a Pay Pal complaint, and he never even answered them. It took 10 days but I got my money back. The last time I checked, my order is still marked as on Hold. Use Gravity-Spain. They're fantastic in every sense of the word.


Joel
Szmann
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Netherlands Antilles
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Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2018 - 02:38 PM UTC
Michael, that is some nice progress there. So far so great!

Luciano, that's a very interesting choice of Porsche for sure! I cannot wait to see the development!

UPDATE (sort of)

I'm not ready yet for the campaign - I haven't finished my Mack and the other build slot on my table is taken with various campaigns until February I guess. But! Because I was confined at home by the bad weather today, I found some time to do my customary paint tests. The base color for this build I chose long time ago: Tru-Color TCP-755 Carbon Flash Pearlcoat, but I wasn't sure about the undercoat. Being a "pearlcoat", the paint behaves better on a metallic finish... but which one?
I have sprayed four plastic spoons with Mr. Finishing Surfacer 1500 black. I kept one like that, and the other three were sprayed with various metallics from the same Rust-oleum range:


In top of them I applied afterwards TCP-755:


To my surprise, the one with only primer shows the lighter tone. Anyhow, I have decided for the copper undercoat. I was not worried about the gloss at this time, so I didn't bother polishing the metallics - I just wanted to know the tonal variations. Probably in the original build I am going to spray a clear gloss in top of the metallic, polish it, and only after apply the pearlcoat.

Note to myself: with only a single coat of pearl over the black primer, a very nice matte black with "scale effect" is achieved.

Hopefully I will join you soon.
Cheers!
Gabriel
Cosimodo
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Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2018 - 02:21 PM UTC
Here is the Porsche interior. Not too many parts and lacks a bit of detail but as this is a first effort for cars for a long, long time I will leave as it comes. Tamiya suggested everything be painted semi-gloss black so I mixed those up a bit with three different blacks using, semi, Nato and tyre.





So now to the exterior where I have had an issue. I originally bought the Tamiya rattle can for this, TS Cobalt Green but since as stated elsewhere, since for cars, 70% of the job is in the finish I though i would try some specialist paint. I saw Joel was using Gravity paints so I gave them a try and ordered some Vaillant green. I should have read Joel's post a little closer as now I have learnt there are two Gravity paint suppliers. Gravity.com and Gravity-com. the first based in the US and the second in Spain. I ordered with the US one five weeks ago and they took my money and said it was in "processing". After 4 weeks I followed up with a query but got no response. This is when I found out about the back story of the two Gravity.(Google is your friend) So if I don't get a response from the US in a few days I will ask PayPal for my money back and try Gravity of Spain which is where I think I should have started.

cheers

Michael

Cosimodo
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Posted: Saturday, October 13, 2018 - 01:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Well into the cabin now and have doubled the parts count by providing some seatbelts. My own version of a six point harness made out of foil and some etch buckles from various plane kits.


cheers
Michael



Michael,
I really like how you made that harness assembly. Since the model is 1/24 scale, whose and what scale buckles & latches did you use? I'm finding that the Tamiya sets aren't always available. I've tried the Eduard PE sets but I'm just not a fan of PE belts as they're so hard to work with.

And of course, thanks for stopping by and checking out my progress to date. It's always much appreciated. We're a small but active community that's slowly growing for sure. Now if we could just get "D" to actually build and finish one of his car projects, that truly would be something.

Joel



Hi Joel,
I missed this question. The buckles came from three different sets, 1/24 Trumpeter Hurricane, 1/32 Eduard for a Zero and 1/32 Tamiya for same Zero. I won't attest to any sort of accuracy but the kit's seatbelts were just decals and didn't look very good at all.

cheers
Michael
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, October 06, 2018 - 08:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

OK photos of the box and contents:





Luciano,
I'll be following your build for sure. I'm already betting that you win the farm Machinery class.


Joel
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Posted: Saturday, October 06, 2018 - 08:28 AM UTC
OK photos of the box and contents:


Littorio
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Posted: Friday, October 05, 2018 - 05:41 AM UTC
Ok my Porsche arrived just as I left for work so I'll post a picture tomorrow. I'd like to say that my Porsche will not be setting any speed records as I've gone for the new Revell kit of the Porsche Junior diesel tractor as something different.

A single cylinder 14hp diesel!
The real deal:
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, September 23, 2018 - 12:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

We're a small but active community that's slowly growing for sure. Now if we could just get "D" to actually build and finish one of his car projects, that truly would be something.

Joel



Joel, I think I would be happier than anybody to get some regular bench time soon. Despite my best efforts, my work and home life seem to be just more and more chaotic lately. I am way overdue for some R&R so fingers crossed for some progress very soon

Cheers, D



D,
I went through a long period like that, then one day, it just changed. Just gotta hang in there, and model when you can find some time. Eventually, you'll get to the finish line.

Joel
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Posted: Sunday, September 23, 2018 - 09:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

We're a small but active community that's slowly growing for sure. Now if we could just get "D" to actually build and finish one of his car projects, that truly would be something.

Joel



Joel, I think I would be happier than anybody to get some regular bench time soon. Despite my best efforts, my work and home life seem to be just more and more chaotic lately. I am way overdue for some R&R so fingers crossed for some progress very soon

Cheers, D
Joel_W
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Posted: Sunday, September 23, 2018 - 01:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well into the cabin now and have doubled the parts count by providing some seatbelts. My own version of a six point harness made out of foil and some etch buckles from various plane kits.


cheers
Michael



Michael,
I really like how you made that harness assembly. Since the model is 1/24 scale, whose and what scale buckles & latches did you use? I'm finding that the Tamiya sets aren't always available. I've tried the Eduard PE sets but I'm just not a fan of PE belts as they're so hard to work with.

And of course, thanks for stopping by and checking out my progress to date. It's always much appreciated. We're a small but active community that's slowly growing for sure. Now if we could just get "D" to actually build and finish one of his car projects, that truly would be something.

Joel
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Posted: Sunday, September 23, 2018 - 01:10 AM UTC
Michael,
I found the listing while going through 550 plus pages on the HLJ web site, which is like a P/T job. The manufacture is Aoshima with a available date of Sept, but it's still not listed as in stock. As I near the end of the Lotus 72E build, I'll have to switch gears and select another Porsche for the GB. Right now I'm really leaning towards the 918 Spider, but who knows as I've been a 911 fan since the day I 1st saw one.

I'm also waiting for the Ebbro Brabham 1966 F2 car listed for a Sept release, but it's already more then a year since they showed the prototype at the Japanese toy fair.

And Aoshima has for Dec the 1967 & 1972 MGB. I'll be buying a min of two '67 models. One I'll do as my street car, and one I'll do as my quasi race/time trial car. I'm still kicking myself in the ass for selling it. I truly loved that car. I'd buy one in a nano second but my wife doesn't share my passion for cars, modeling, sports, nor photography, so the odds are less then winning the lottery. Believe me, I've tried to negotiate a deal, but the FOO of the house isn't budging as yet.

Joel
Cosimodo
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Posted: Saturday, September 22, 2018 - 03:59 PM UTC
Well into the cabin now and have doubled the parts count by providing some seatbelts. My own version of a six point harness made out of foil and some etch buckles from various plane kits.


cheers
Michael