login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Takom #2113 M60A1 w/ERA USMC
MikeMummey
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: February 09, 2005
entire network: 669 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Monday, August 06, 2018 - 08:44 AM UTC
Obtained a copy of the kit, just some cursory observations looking inside the box on the kitchen table. The hull and suspension with steel roadwheels/compensating idlers are from the #2090 CM-11Brave Tiger kit and will build up nicely. The Drivers hatch is correct with no turntable, having a small pivoting hatch for the Night Viewer of a Passive tank. The Drivers Night Viewer is included, the exterior objective being a clear part.
Tracks are the correct T-142 done rubber band style made of a soft black material. The center guides are in the correct location, however there is a slight seam along the end connectors with minor sink holes on the roadwheel running surface. The headlight assemblies have separate clear parts for the lenses.

There are 5 sprues marked 2113 specific to this particular version of the M60A1 RISE Passive in USMC service. There will have to be many holes opened up on the turret in order to mount the ERA brackets. The ERA tiles have an oval on the back side representing Dummy tiles. The slot will need filling in to represent Service ERA. However, only those tile backs that may be visible along the edges might require the treatment as those in the center will not be visible. Looking at tanks in Desert Storm most had some additional storage or sand bags along the top edge of the turret side tiles so this could help the modeler if they apply same.

Additional ERA mounting brackets parts K8, K9, K10 and K11 would not normally be applied to the outside of most builds turret ERA. These were on one known tank from 8th Tk Bn (Res). However, individual mounting brackets can be seen in random places on tanks having ERA applied in KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia). There were some extra brackets "found" by crewman while down at the port, applied to the outside of the tiles, used as additional storage mounting hooks.

There is a jig to help assemble the styrene bars that make up the Bustle Rack frame as well as PE for the expanded mesh of the bottom and rear. There is also a PE frame with bolt heads for the metal that secures the mantle cover to the turret. There is a styrene mantlet cover for both the main gun and cupola M85.

The TC and Gunners optics can be modeled in the open position and is a nice touch. There is a Loaders periscope molded in clear material. The Main Gun Bore evacuator or "fume extractor" is in two parts and goes onto a one piece barrel. The cupola mounted M85 .50 caliber barrel has a nice rendition of the triangular fluted flash hider.

A DWFK (Deep Water Fording Kit) engine exhaust stack with additional rear grille door to mount it on are an option. These were not used in Desert Storm yet will allow the modeler to show the tank in an Amphibious mode training in CONUS or deployed OCONUS. This kit will be easily backdated to a non-ERA hog and could be a good start for you Army Joe types and your builds.

There are four marking options included; "Beirut Payback" A Co 8th Tk Bn (Res) and the subject of the box art, "Wicked Bit*h" C-12 3rd Tk Bn, "Bummer" C-14 3rd Tk Bn and "Genesis II" C-51 C Co 3rd Tk BN. I imagine with appropriate markings and figures it could also be an Italian hog in Mogadishu circa 1992 or 93.
More to follow as the pieces get fitted. Kudos to Takom for tackling this subject.

Happy Jarhead modeling! Pics posted on ML Modern DG.

Outta here,
El Mumbo (aqui en Rio Rancho) sends . . .
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 16,430 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,876 Posts
Posted: Monday, August 06, 2018 - 09:15 AM UTC
Sounds like a good kit. Lots of possibilities.
jwest21
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Member Since: October 16, 2006
entire network: 3,269 Posts
KitMaker Network: 238 Posts
Posted: Monday, August 06, 2018 - 10:17 AM UTC
Thank you Mike!
iowabrit
Visit this Community
Iowa, United States
Member Since: November 06, 2007
entire network: 554 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Monday, August 06, 2018 - 12:31 PM UTC
Good to hear, I just ordered one yesterday.
TopSmith
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: August 09, 2002
entire network: 1,125 Posts
KitMaker Network: 32 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 10:44 AM UTC
Often those extra brackets on the outside of the ERA were also for steps to get on to or off of the turret top. The infantry rail is not there. Sliding down the rough surface of the tiles was not so good.

Don't worry about filling in too many of the tiles. On my tank none of the turret side tiles were active. Only the front slope and gun mantlet were active. Now, if you were modeling the Battalion 6 tank, it had all active tiles.
starfleet
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 10, 2011
entire network: 24 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 01:51 PM UTC
Note two units had the DWFK (Deep Water Fording Kit) at some time during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. D Co. 1StTkBn arrived by sea from Okinawa. The DWFKs was removed shortly after landing. A Co. 4thTkBn(Res) arrived by sea from Camp Pendleton using the Tanks left there by 1stTkBn.
MikeMummey
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: February 09, 2005
entire network: 669 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 05:48 PM UTC
Howdy Greg, neat hearing how your hog was set up regarding the ERA tiles. They say rank has its privileges, I guess so in your Battalion. I have often wondered about "American Express" whenever I was scoping out your pictures on Prime Portal. I think your tank is the reason the Takom CAD drawings had the additional mounting brackets. So what was your tanks Tac number?

Delta Co CAB (Combined Assault Battalion) also arrived KSA from Oki via USN Gator boat. They were UDP (Unit Deployment Program) from 2nd Tk Bn out of Camp Lejeune, NC. Initially parceled out to the Companies of 3rd Tk Bn to keep the 5 tank platoon TO&E (Table of Organization & Equipment)intact. They were soon recovered and formed back up as D Co 3rd Tk BN.
Regardless of when they arrived, there were no hogs equipped with DWFK crossing LoD in February 1991.
I am looking forward to backdating/modifying the kit sans ERA to model my RISE Passive tank at 29 Palms circa 1990.
Outta here, Mike sends . . .
TopSmith
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: August 09, 2002
entire network: 1,125 Posts
KitMaker Network: 32 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 08:49 PM UTC
Mike, I was C23 with 8th Tks attached to 6th Marines. The number on the sponson box was 502859. There were not enough tanks to form 4 companies so they combined C and D companies. Crews were selected and the rest were sent to the log train as replacements. We became a rank heavy company. My platoon leader was a captain, the Platoon Sgt was a Master Sgt and I was just a lowly section leader as a Gunny Sgt.
Tank1812
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: April 29, 2014
entire network: 383 Posts
KitMaker Network: 25 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 07, 2018 - 09:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Note two units had the DWFK (Deep Water Fording Kit) at some time during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. D Co. 1StTkBn arrived by sea from Okinawa. The DWFKs was removed shortly after landing. A Co. 4thTkBn(Res) arrived by sea from Camp Pendleton using the Tanks left there by 1stTkBn.



Do you know where A Co went after getting in country. Most Google search only hit on B Co and their success but that is with the M1A1 not M60. Do you know why they took 1st Tank hogs and not thier own? I know years later when A co had M1A1's they where kept at Campen and 1st Tanks used them instead of bringing thier own. I don't recall if the M60 was kept at Campen or Miramar.
MikeMummey
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: February 09, 2005
entire network: 669 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 06:43 AM UTC
Howdy Greg, that is some good scoop there. So you were out of Tallahassee? I worked with C Co 8 Tk Bn Marines at CLNC when they borrowed my companies hogs in July of 1985. I was serving in Bravo Company, 2nd Tanks. A Maintenance Corporal
and I bird dogged from an M151.
You are going to like this new Takom #2113 kit. Lots of nice features. It has the additional ERA brackets that could be added to the outside of the tiles and present on your "American Express" hog.
If you need a set of decals for your tanks build I probably have them available from the Tamiya #35157 kit.

Outta here, Mike sends . . .
TopSmith
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: August 09, 2002
entire network: 1,125 Posts
KitMaker Network: 32 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 07:00 AM UTC
The decals would be great! I'll PM you. We always hated borrowing others Tanks. It is always an inconvenience for both the lender and the lendee. I hope they were returned in at least as good of shape as we received them.
marcb
Visit this Community
Overijssel, Netherlands
Member Since: March 25, 2006
entire network: 826 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 07:25 AM UTC
Good review.
Btw I still have your Concord book on ODS, good read.
MikeMummey
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: February 09, 2005
entire network: 669 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 07:46 AM UTC
Howdy Ryan, before Desert Shield/Desert Storm A Co 4th Tanks had their M60A1s at Miramar and trained in the hills on the back lot of the NAS. That area was Camp Elliot during WWII. I do not remember if their hogs had ERA mounts or Dummy tiles. That may be why they would have sailed with the left behind tanks from 1st Tanks at Las Flores that did have the mounts/tiles. I am going to have to track down some old Jarheads and find out.
Post Desert Storm A Co 4th Tk Bn M1A1 tanks have been maintained aboard Camp Las Flores at Camp Pendleton.
1st Tk Bn never had any M1A1s assigned to Camp Pendleton. 1st Tanks began shrinking down to one gun company post Desert Storm. Marines whom did not EAS or PCS were funneled into Delta Co 1991-1992. D Co 1 Tk Bn came up to 3rd Tk Bn at 29 Palms summer of 1992 becoming the fourth company. In a deactivation ceremony 3rd Tanks colors were furled, 1st Tanks colors paraded onto the grinder and the gathered Marines and Sailors became 1st Tk Bn. 1st Tanks has been continuously active since 1 November, 1941.

Outta here, Mike sends . . .
marcb
Visit this Community
Overijssel, Netherlands
Member Since: March 25, 2006
entire network: 826 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 08:45 AM UTC
And there's of course this interesting finish

Petition2God
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Member Since: February 06, 2002
entire network: 1,390 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 09:57 AM UTC
Great discussion here. Thank you, Mike and others for the info!
Tank1812
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: April 29, 2014
entire network: 383 Posts
KitMaker Network: 25 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy Ryan, before Desert Shield/Desert Storm A Co 4th Tanks had their M60A1s at Miramar and trained in the hills on the back lot of the NAS. I do not remember if their hogs had ERA mounts or Dummy tiles. That may be why they would have sailed with the left behind tanks from 1st Tanks at Las Flores that did have the mounts/tiles. I am going to have to track down some old Jarheads and find out.
Post Desert Storm A Co 4th Tk Bn M1A1 tanks have been maintained aboard Camp Las Flores at Camp Pendleton.
1st Tk Bn never had any M1A1s assigned to Camp Pendleton. 1st Tanks began shrinking down to one gun company post Desert Storm. Marines whom did not EAS or PCS were funneled into Delta Co 1991-1992. D Co 1 Tk Bn came up to 3rd Tk Bn at 29 Palms summer of 1992 becoming the fourth company. In a deactivation ceremony 3rd Tanks colors were furled, 1st Tanks colors paraded onto the grinder and the gathered Marines and Sailors became 1st Tk Bn. 1st Tanks has been continuously active since 1 November, 1941.

Outta here, Mike sends . . .



Thanks Mike. I didn't mean to imply 1st Tank had M1's at Campen, just that they used A Co tanks when on exercise on Campen. A Co borrowed tanks from EAP when at 29 Palms. If I am not mistaken D Co 4th Tanks also had M1's at Campen post DS. There was a company size worth of tanks but each plt only had 2 tanks to use. I could be misremembering. My Plt Leader and Plt Sgt where both in DS and as I recall my Sgt was a M60 driver. I don't have contact info for them but I would prefer to make A Co tank with generic markings.
panamadan
Visit this Community
Minnesota, United States
Member Since: July 20, 2004
entire network: 985 Posts
KitMaker Network: 41 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:21 AM UTC
Im wondering while the Marines got that ERA on their tanks but the Army not?
Im sure they would have helped if the ballon went up when I was on A3s in 1AD in West Germany.
Dan
Kenaicop
#384
Visit this Community
Nevada, United States
Member Since: August 23, 2005
entire network: 1,116 Posts
KitMaker Network: 68 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Im wondering while the Marines got that ERA on their tanks but the Army not?
Im sure they would have helped if the ballon went up when I was on A3s in 1AD in West Germany.
Dan



If I remember correctly, that whole set up was for the army, for tanks deployed to S. Korea. Somehow they wound up with the USMC. Someone with the rest of the story should chime in here...
MikeMummey
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: February 09, 2005
entire network: 669 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:38 AM UTC
Howdy Marc, that is one raggedy hog, I love it! 3rd Plt, B Co, 1st Tk Bn out of Camp Pendleton. It is shown at MCAGCC (Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center) Twenty-nine Palms, CA aka "The Stumps". 1st Tanks always lowboyed their hogs up to the Hi-desert for CAXs (Combined Arms Exercise) instead of using 3rd Tanks machines as rental tanks.
You can see the Summer Verdant MERDC hiding under those dummy ERA tiles. Looking at the patch paint on the Bore Evacuator it is awaiting a new moniker. The clamp to keep the accordion portion of the main gun barrel/mantlet cover in place has failed.
The oval slot of the bottom row of ERA ID them as being Dummy tiles. The turret lower side tiles had to be removed in order to remove the Power pack for service. Re-installing them backwards with the oval outboard was common. The right fender has seen better days. The headlights are also not mounted. SOP was to keep them stowed inside until needed.
You are welcome for the conversation Jim, I am glad to have been able to finally find out some insight regarding Greg's experience in the Sand Box.

Out here, Mike sends . . .
sgtreef
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Member Since: March 01, 2002
entire network: 5,967 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,564 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 12:09 PM UTC
I hate to bump in here, with all these Marines, as I was US Army.


But does the Italeri M60 Blazer kit any good for a build?
starfleet
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 10, 2011
entire network: 24 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 03:37 PM UTC
A Co 4thtks Did not have ERA or mounts on their Hogs that is why they used the tanks left by 1st Tks. As for where they landed at Desert Storm, I do not know. I can ask one of them. I do know they off loaded after the start of the ground war.
18Bravo
Visit this Community
Colorado, United States
Member Since: January 20, 2005
entire network: 6,251 Posts
KitMaker Network: 886 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 04:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I hate to bump in here, with all these Marines, as I was US Army.


But does the Italeri M60 Blazer kit any good for a build?



It used to be touted by many on this site as the best out there - until the AFV Club kit came along. Still a fine kit with very minor work, and can be had for about 1/6 the price. Mine aren't going anywhere.
Bergun
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: February 16, 2014
entire network: 44 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:11 PM UTC
Has anybody seen the actual M60 kit from Takom yet? I'm hoping its a good kit without the over exaggerated casting molding as done by AFV.

I'm also hoping for a straight M60 and both the A2 and A3 versions in the near future from Takom. I'm still setting on several Tamiya M60A1, A2 and A3 kits... Never too happy with them since the hulls ride way too high, IMHO. They will just sit in my collection.

Being a retired Army 19E/19K, I'm glad that the M60 is now getting some love and respect it deserves!!
Tank1812
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: April 29, 2014
entire network: 383 Posts
KitMaker Network: 25 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 08, 2018 - 11:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

A Co 4thtks Did not have ERA or mounts on their Hogs that is why they used the tanks left by 1st Tks. As for where they landed at Desert Storm, I do not know. I can ask one of them. I do know they off loaded after the start of the ground war.



Thanks for the info. I was rereading Oscar Gilberts book Tank Battles in the Middle East.
https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Corps-Tank-Battles-Middle/dp/1612002676

It did mention A Co taking 1st Tanks tanks but not why or the condition of the tanks at Miramar. It did mention they went West and stop in the Philippines. They had the DWFK kit installed when landing but not when they departed from the rear area just as both you and Mike stated. I didn't read far enough to see where their adventures took them and with who.

Did see this for M1A1 of B Co 4th Tanks DS https://www.arcgis.com/home/item.html?id=22dc631bdf5649ce8bfd5f6fc504f42c


Mike,

You mentioned "This kit will be easily backdated to a non-ERA hog". Since it appears A Co tanks CONUS was non-ERA would it a simple as not installing the brackets to make this tank or is there more details to making a non-ERA hog?
MikeMummey
Visit this Community
New Mexico, United States
Member Since: February 09, 2005
entire network: 669 Posts
KitMaker Network: 18 Posts
Posted: Thursday, August 09, 2018 - 05:40 AM UTC
Ted, please read my opening sentence. The texture of the castings is not exaggerated like a recent offering.

Robert, great seeing you on the net.

Dan and James, the ERA for the M60A1 was just a convenient survivability upgrade while awaiting the Common version of the M1A1 to be produced. The M1A1 Common for the USMC was planned to be fielded FY 91(October, 1990). The only ERA TM I have ever seen was behind the squirrel cage of one of eleven US Army M60A3s that the USMC acquired in KSA January 1991. None of them even had the ERA mounts yet a manual was present.

Alfred, you are making me use my brain. Lots of rust to bust. I recall A Co 4th Tanks sailed with BLT 3/5 as part of 5th Marine Expeditionary Brigade. They got to go on the big UXO Police Call after the two way range went cold.

Ryan, the 2113 kit has plenty of Vee and Inverted Vee markings to make your generic A Co hog. Off the top of my head to back date you shall need to move the Smoke Grenade stowage boxes/Jerrycan mounts to the turret sides, lower the Smoke Grenade Launchers, remove the turret top side interrupter bars, add grunt rails to the turret sides and add the tow cable keepers and clips to the lower turret sides. Probably a couple more items that escape me at the moment.


Outta here, Mike sends . . .