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RAF motor transport air ID roundels
Jimmie
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: August 28, 2005
entire network: 210 Posts
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Posted: Friday, September 28, 2018 - 04:04 AM UTC
Hi Peter,
From Mike Starmer:
'Regarding roof roundels, the when and where seems to catch modellers out. Pre-WW2 in ME RAF armoured cars and some army cars had them in Palestine and those Levant areas so that RAF aircraft could ID there own side. In UK there was no requirement for any roof roundel at all at any time. Nor for NWE, 2nd TAF cars carried the circled white allied star on top with side roundels and the 9 inch front O/S one. Sometimes had one on the rear body too by then. In Egypt and western desert only the 9 inch front and sometimes rear displayed, NO top roundel, this was an 8th Army requirement. In Italy some airfield defence cars did display a top roundel and front 9 inch and sides. The 9 inch front O/S marking only began use in 1941, not dueing BoB as some modellers think. You are correct on the dates etc for 8th Army.'

Thanks Mike, I hope that answers your questions Peter.
As always, check your photos.
This link is to an old article by Mike, use it as a general reference then find his latest treatise.
http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/Starmer%20camo.htm
HTH

Paul M.
Jimmie
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: August 28, 2005
entire network: 210 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 26, 2018 - 09:24 AM UTC
Good question Peter!
I'll see if I can get an answer from Mike Starmer.

Paul M.
pbhawkin
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New South Wales, Australia
Member Since: November 23, 2009
entire network: 174 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 12:29 PM UTC
Thanks Paul.
June 1942 is a good date, and this is for all o/seas vehicles I assume. I suppose UK based MT on RAF airfields did NOT need the roof roundel?
Jimmie
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: August 28, 2005
entire network: 210 Posts
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Posted: Thursday, September 20, 2018 - 08:33 AM UTC
Hi Peter,
There are books on the subject that I do not possess, but by Googling 'RAF Motor transport WW2' you get an idea of the situation.
Certainly a good cross-section of British vehicles were sporting a roundel in North Africa (GHQ MEF June 1942 instruction), there are good photos of Rolls-Royce Armoured Cars (or were they Fordsons ?) with a roundel on the turret roof. Ditto for soft-skins be they Army or RAF. This seems to have continued to Sicily and Italy, although by 1944 an ACI (Army Council Instruction) had come out that the five-pointed white star was to be used to avoid confusion for the Americans.
However, the RAF is the RAF and I have seen an RAF Regiment Humber LRC in 1945 in Germany with a roundel.
I don't recall seeing a roof roundel in the UK, but wait to be proved wrong!
I've just dug out Dick Taylor's Warpaint Vol 4 which states that the RAF had been using the roof roundel since the early '30's, and the order was posted for all vehicles on the 9th June 1942 until superceded in May 1944 by the white star. RAF vehicles continued to use the roundel throughout the war in all theatres.
If you can, consult the Dick Taylor books, Mike Starmer's excellent works and dig through the internet for photos.
Find a photo and copy it!

Hope this helps,
Paul M.
pbhawkin
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New South Wales, Australia
Member Since: November 23, 2009
entire network: 174 Posts
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Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 09:44 PM UTC
Hi, I was wondering if anyone can tell me when the RAF roundels were used on top of RAF MT? Also were they used only in Europe or also in the UK?

Thanks in advance.

peter