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Figures
Primarily 1/35 AFV figure subjects. See Historicus Forma for others.
To Duplicate Parts or Not to Duplicate...
johnnyD
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Alabama, United States
Member Since: August 07, 2003
entire network: 52 Posts
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 05:56 AM UTC
I recently started a new project and have several figures in a diorama that will utilize several of the same arms, torsos. I will be mixing them into several different poses to create the different individual figures.
So my dilemma is do I make copies of the parts I need duplicated or do I need to purchase several more of these figures which aren't as cheap as they once were. Am I just being cheap or do you think it's OK to duplicate the parts I need?
Any suggestions???
matt
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New York, United States
Member Since: February 28, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 06:18 AM UTC
My personal opinion is, for personal use... it's ok. YMMV
keo
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Nordjylland, Denmark
Member Since: January 30, 2006
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 08:47 AM UTC
I agree with Matt - for strictly personal use I canít see any harm in it. If any part of the copies, however, in one form or another change hands it is another ball game all together.
Copyrights are not just a legal issue - itís exploitation of others labor for personal use/profit.
Tojo72
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North Carolina, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2006
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 09:44 AM UTC
How about if some one duplicated a figure and used the copies whole in a diorama,would that be okay.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 09:55 AM UTC
For personal use, I see no issues duplicating any figure, parts of a figure, or accessory item such as bags or the like. If you try to sell them, then it becomes an issue.
Vicious
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Queensland, Australia
Member Since: September 04, 2015
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 10:06 AM UTC
For me duplicate body parts for personal use it's ok,the whole figure or a head like the Hornets i dont know i find little bit on the edge,depend also if is a mass production plastic injection or a limited resin run...my 2 cents
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
Member Since: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 10:51 AM UTC
The oft quoted "rule" (by the likes of Verlinden) used to be that if you changed 10% of the original part, it was fair game. Hence their use of so many copied Tamiya parts, i.e. the accordion shroud in their M48 upgrade.
Removed by original poster on 11/16/18 - 23:36:53 (GMT).
pjmurley
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Ontario, Canada
Member Since: July 06, 2014
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 11:38 AM UTC
Copyright issues aside, fabricating your own parts make you a better model maker.
wowcool
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Solomon Islands
Member Since: September 26, 2015
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 02:15 PM UTC
I'd say duplicate, but it really depends on how much money or effort you'll need just to get the raw materials and also the extra work just removing imperfections from the copies. if you don't believe it's worth it, just buy the same kit again.
KoSprueOne
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Myanmar
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2018 - 04:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I recently started a new project and have several figures in a diorama that will utilize several of the same arms, torsos. I will be mixing them into several different poses to create the different individual figures.
. . . Am I just being cheap or do you think it's OK to duplicate the parts I need?
Any suggestions???



I'm reading this as, "which method is more affordable."

It depends on quantity. If you need 5 duplicate arms and torsos, buying five of the same kit is usually more affordable.
If you need 100 duplicate arms and torsos, then making a mold and casting them is usually more affordable.

If I read it wrong and this IS about ethics then any amount for personal use is legally and ethically OK. (As long as it doesn't exceed 1 once )




johnnyD
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Alabama, United States
Member Since: August 07, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 08:15 AM UTC
Thanks guys, this helps me with the moral aspect of it if its alright. Since this is for me an me alone I guess I'm good. The duplication part comes from the number of figures I need and the different poses I working to get. Several of the figures I need only come in a combo pack that I'm only using the arms for and feel I'd come out better making a duplicate of a set than purchasing several sets.
I'll see what I can do about posting my final product once I'm done. So you guys can give me some constructive criticism.
Thanks again J.D
Epi
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Texas, United States
Member Since: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2018 - 09:27 PM UTC
I like what Peter Murley said, "Copyright issues aside, fabricating your own parts make you a better model maker." As long as you don't make a profit from making the copies and you GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE, then go for it. It takes another talent to be able use resin and RTV to make molds and resin parts.
Some of us guys can't afford to buy several sets of M1A1 stowage sets for example, as long as we don't sell the copies as are own or don't sell them at all.

I see one Ebay seller that uses Live Resin stuff and sells figure s as his own with NO CREDIT TO LIVE RESIN. THAT IS WRONG!!!!!
johnnyD
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Alabama, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 05:27 AM UTC
When all else fails, contact the manufacturer. Ok, so here is an update on another option. I contacted the manufacturer of the figures I'm using and low and behold they sell parts separately from the original figure. That will drastically cut down of the time and cost of recasting additional parts that I need. For a small fee I can get what I need without recreating the wheel or going broke. All I needed to do was reach out to them in the first place. Thanks for all the advice and support you guys give!
zorrolobo
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Distrito Federal, Mexico
Member Since: May 31, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 11:02 AM UTC
I agree 100% with Peter and Pete. For personal use: ok. If you profit in any way: not ok.
Removed by original poster on 01/31/19 - 00:14:22 (GMT).
darkkngiht69
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 02:41 PM UTC
anything for personal use is fine, for profit changes things, I think a percentage may not be fair, i.e if you buy a guys figure and change all the parts by 10% and make an entire figure, thats recasting, if you refine the head sculpt and sell that, it might be okay because without the original kit the head is mostly useless, thus you aren't hurting the original sculptor, but seriously usually the effort to cast parts isn't worth it if you can buy more of the original kit
easyco69
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 04:03 PM UTC
copying someone elses work is illegal...period.
amoz02t
#192
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 04:25 PM UTC
I assume the same is true of small 3D printed parts recast for personal use only? The 3D printed items from Shapeways are very expensive. Thinking liquid surfacer can clean up the step layering and improve the final result during the casting process. Currently working on some soft white resin 3D items that look really toy like as printed due to the layers causing rough surfaces. What are the thoughts on 3D recasting?
brekinapez
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Georgia, United States
Member Since: July 26, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 05:19 PM UTC
There is really not much they can do if it is for your personal use and you gain no financial compensation from it. It is when you intend to distribute it to their target audience that it becomes an issue, especially if you claim the material is your own and original. An analogy from my experiences as a Manhattan bookseller might help: If a customer asked if s/he could photocopy part of a book we said no, as that competed with our purpose of selling the book. We instead directed them to the public library as that facility had paid for their copies and could do whatever they wanted with them as far as our responsibility extended.

Of course, the problem is the library doesn't usually have the more niche stuff so people have to buy it in the end.
M4A1Sherman
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New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 08:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I recently started a new project and have several figures in a diorama that will utilize several of the same arms, torsos. I will be mixing them into several different poses to create the different individual figures.
So my dilemma is do I make copies of the parts I need duplicated or do I need to purchase several more of these figures which aren't as cheap as they once were. Am I just being cheap or do you think it's OK to duplicate the parts I need?
Any suggestions???



Hi, David!

I wish that I had a DOLLAR for every time that I've duplicated parts- I don't think that you're being "cheap", at all! You're being "economical", "frugal", and/or penny-wise"...

Sometimes, if you lose or break a part, it can TAKE MONTHS for a manufacturer to send you a replacement. Some manufacturers, such as ASUKA, sell extra and/or replacement parts for their kits quite openly through their own sales organizations or through outside vendors; others couldn't care less about one's little personal plights. I don't wait for these guys to send me a part on THEIR WHIM, period...

And then you have the PIRATES out there that will duplicate entire figures and/or kits to sell them under their "own label" for their own "fun and profit"- I take a dim view of that practice. Unless of course, they have received prior permission and/or have made legal arrangements pertaining to copyrights from the original manufacturer...

If you duplicate a bunch of torsos, arms, legs, helmets, personal gear, or other parts for PERSONAL PROFIT, then it may not be OK with the manufacturer(s). If, on the other hand, you're just going to use the stuff in a dio to put in your display case, or enter in a contest or a show, I still don't see any reason for anyone to get their bowels in an uproar. Many of the most famous modelers in the whole world have duplicated parts for whatever reason they needed said parts for.

IMO, the same goes for replacing broken, missing or AWOL parts that have been swallowed by that GREAT ENEMY of ALL MODELERS, "The Evil Carpet Monster"... The same applies to parts that may have been ruined by the modeler inadvertently, or by design...

One can look at it another way, too; how many of us have bought kits and/or figurines to use as a "base" for a conversion or an extensive scratch-build..? I think that THIS practice would come under the same parameters as "using torsos, arms, legs, etc" to create multiple figures...

IMO, just go ahead and enjoy yourself...
Lawyer1
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South Africa
Member Since: July 22, 2015
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 09:54 PM UTC
My 10 cents worth - if it's for personal consumption and your intention is not to sell the copies, then it's perfectly fine.
johnnyD
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Alabama, United States
Member Since: August 07, 2003
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Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 05:35 AM UTC
Thanks for everyone's input and yes this is for a diorama I'm working on. Not Resale.
When I spoke to the manufacturer and they told me what I could get the parts for so little it was a no brainier. I can get the parts this time for less time and effort and money than if I were to recast extras.
It's nice to know that we have a sounding board where we can ask these types of questions from our peers. At this point I want to thank Armorama for everything your guys do with this site. This is a great place for advice and guidance. You guys don't know how much how I've learned from yall's tips and tricks over the years.