login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
German railcar ďgatesĒ
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 01:05 PM UTC
I just built the T-Model Ssym 80 railcar and i noticed it had a gate at one side of the railcar and an open side at the other end, what was the purpose of this, i noticed it on my Sabre model type ommr railcar as well. I havenít built it yet but i find it peculiar that thereís pictures of tanks on ommr wagons and ssym 80 wagons yet they donít show the gate. Why is there a gate , what was itís purpose?
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 01:45 PM UTC
Hi Gregory. What do you exactly mean by 'Gate'? When you refer to metal construction, which look like a fence, well it is the hand brake system of the wagon. Bottom of the picture shows it.


Kind regards,

Robert Jan
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 02:41 PM UTC
Yes that is what i am referring to. Was it on every car or just on a few? Wouldnít that hinder the loading and unloading of tanks or could they be taken on and off at the station ?
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 03:11 PM UTC
Can't say why they had the fence/gate in the first place (probably considered a safety device) but it protected the handbrake lever. In any case the fence and brake will fold down completely and a string of flatcars can be loaded from one end with tanks running continuously over the gaps just using the length of their tracks and road wheels to carry them across.
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 03:33 PM UTC
Brake versions differ, but every wagon was, could be equipped with it. Even today wagons have a hand brake system, for shunting purposes and of course emergency situations.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 03:44 PM UTC
Robert in this case he is asking about the handrail at one end of the car and why it does not get in the way for loading the cars.

I am saying it folds down out of the way. I am sure Nacho did a CAD drawing showing the railing folded but for the life of me I now cannot find it.
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 04:53 PM UTC
Boxing Art of new Sabre SSyms shows it as a folded down option. Look at the link:
http://www.sabremodel.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20&product_id=52

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 09:02 PM UTC
THAT must have been the image I saw that stuck in my mind!

After seeing that I was sorry I had not cut up the railing (fence) on my Dragon model and built the fence in the lowered position! However until seeing the box art image I could not figure out how it was supposed to fold. (Now it is so obvious!)

Again all that detail in the new Sabre offering is just a total joy to look at! Gonna have to put one of those in the stash just to enjoy opening the box every now and then! I am to the point where I am seriously sure I don't have enough time left to build all that is in my larder already!

Cheers Guys!
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 22, 2019 - 09:20 PM UTC
Gregory here is a link to a thread you are sure to enjoy. It does not yet cover the answer to you particular question but I was about to pose something similar and you beat me to it. Enjoy!

https://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=262280
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 23, 2019 - 02:01 AM UTC
Thank yíall so much for the answers. I got the Sabre model 2in 1 kit off eBay, i thought it was two versions you could build but the one i received had two type ommr kits in just one box. I think Iím gonna do an 1941 diorama of German troops unloading with one fence up and the other down. Thank you for all the reference material and links!
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 - 11:42 PM UTC
Building the Sabre models type ommr kit, would the same reasoning be applied here that the gates could actually come down as well?
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2019 - 11:52 PM UTC
The quick answer would be; YES!

But can you post a photo of the Sabre fence assembly just to be sure? Or a picture of the instruction drawing?

___________________________________________

OK, I am going to back off on the above statement for a bit. I now see your problem. I feel very strongly that the fence DOES fold down but for the moment, based on the photos of the model, I cannot figure out how it folds.

#1 - The two upturned loops in the top handrail are there for only one reason: to clear the buffers when the railing is folded down.

#2 - The box art says "may be built in two statuses of assembly" but does not explain that. Yet in their ad material they show an "either/or" photo of the end of the car. But the only difference I can see between the two photos is the coupling linkage is in a different position. I have hopes this is an advertising error and the photo was supposed to show us the fence both "up" and "folded".
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 12:39 AM UTC
I have fired off an e-mail to Yi at Sabre asking about the railing. I will report back as to his reply.
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 01:00 AM UTC
Thank you, i was kind of thinking maybe i could put the railing down in the same manner as is shown in there ssyms 80 kit, i mean isnít the railing similar to an extent ?
165thspc
#0
Visit this Community
Kentucky, United States
Member Since: April 13, 2011
entire network: 8,236 Posts
KitMaker Network: 127 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 01:27 AM UTC
On the bigger cars there is some sort of scissors brackets at the bottom of each leg of the railing uprights. On this smaller car those brackets are missing so I cannot be sure this one folds. If anything perhaps the the railing just pulls upward and comes out of pockets in the framwork and you then just drop it onto the buffers until you are finished loading?????

I hope SpeedyJ is reading this as he may have some input to offer.
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 02:29 AM UTC
Hi. I just answered Michael's question in my mailbox, but I think the answer is no.
These platforms were purpose builds. With or without. Reason for that is the Ommr type has lots of manufactures that define the type. Example given:



Ommr type Linz with a braking platform as you can see (your Ommr does not have that) But with this example given it does not give a valid answer for the retractable brake rack mounting yes or no question ) But...
Depending if it is a Linz or e.g. Dresden version, (location of production were most / or always a city), number of production, etc., that would define the purpose of build, if they were equipped with or without, depending on the factory designs available. Including a lot of details to recognize, if you really study them.

Hope this helps.

If you're a fan of H0, this brand Artitec is really top notch!
The research is very good and they score with that, but a second job may be required to do some serious railroading with them

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 02:52 AM UTC
Iíve noticed that variations of the ommr do and donít have the fence. The dragon offering doesnít have one either or give you that option. Maybe Iíll build one with and one without the fence Iím still debating .
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 02:58 AM UTC
Make a correction, Dresden should be Villach (Ommru). Going to check some more resources. which I did...

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriegsbauart

Standard Goods Wagons[edit]
Of the eight standard goods wagons that were built in significant quantities as Austauschbauart classes, there were only four types for which there was a further requirement in 1939: the two covered vans (GÖs Oppeln and GlÖs Dresden), the stake wagons (Rs Stuttgart) and the open goods wagons (Om). Because the first three had been continuously developed during the 1930s, they still met wartime requirements and were built in very large batches during the early years of the war. They sometimes had so-called refinements that speeded up production and minimised the amount of steel used.

Now this will give some clues.

For the open wagons, by contrast, not only was a higher maximum load demanded, but also a greater loading volume. As a result, in 1937/38 the Omm wagon was designed from scratch with a maximum load of 24.5 tons and a loading length of 8.72 metres (28.6 ft) (as opposed to 7.72 m or 25.3 ft on Om wagons). Construction began in 1939. Notable external features are the axle base of 6 m (20 ft) and the three-dimensional strut frame that tapers downwards to a point. A total of 73,850 of these wagons appeared in three variants:

Class Grouping Side walls Sole bar Years of manufacture Quantity
Ommr Linz 1.00 m (3 ft 3 in) high and removable inside, fish-belly girder reinforcement 1939−41 6130
outside 1941−43 18605
Ommru Villach 1.55 m (5 ft 1 in) high and fixed 1939−45 49115

Here it is.

All Omm wagons were equipped with Hildebrandt-Knorr brakes as well as, in some cases, hand brakes. The Ommr Linz wagons were especially well-suited to carrying vehicles and had special securing equipment for that purposes.


Purpose build. And if it is a Linz, They would mount from the sides, if it has a hand brake mounted.
We will keep digging.

Kind regards,

Robert Jan
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 03:31 AM UTC
Omm Type, to see the basic design of Kriegsbauart. Volume and weight.

Take a look at the first truck, exceeding the wagons length, they are mounting I guess, see the front wheels are passing the buffers.

I go sleep.

It was a pleasure.
Michael you almost drag me into my favorite hobby again. My brother in Europe gets really nervous if he ever reads this (oh no, not again)
But it's fun to dig up some... and I will not blame you for that. It's the North Koreans (what a cool train that midget has)

Kind regards,
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 03:38 AM UTC
Sorry Greg if I did got carry away at some point.
Hope you got your answers. If not, keep asking!
Anyway, Happy modeling RJ
GregCopplin
Visit this Community
United States
Member Since: September 06, 2011
entire network: 77 Posts
KitMaker Network: 5 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 03:41 AM UTC
No worries, i just didnít realize how many variations of railcars there were. All these answers are awesome. I really appreciate it!
SpeedyJ
Visit this Community
Bangkok, Thailand / ไทย
Member Since: September 17, 2013
entire network: 915 Posts
KitMaker Network: 64 Posts
Posted: Thursday, February 28, 2019 - 04:39 AM UTC
Noted, thanks!