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Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
Tamiya Vietnam M551 Sheridan build/review
sherb
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Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - 07:42 AM UTC
I think I've literally glued two pieces together since the last update. Of course, since seeing the 2 new Bravo6 figure sets that were previewed I'm imagining all sorts of Sheridan dioramas.

Hopefully I'll be back on track soon. Lots of yard work this time of year.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - 03:30 AM UTC

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Thanks for stopping by to check out the thread Doug.
I feel like a celebrity has come to visit.



Hi, Eban!

Just wonderewd how you were doing and how you were coming along with your build!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Monday, March 25, 2019 - 11:36 AM UTC

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If it's the one with a very funky looking star and deep in mud, that's not our test mule. Another vehicle on that site is wildly mis-captioned. The main reason I despise these harvested photo collections



You got it right--that's the one. I mentioned I dislike Pinterest in my initial posting too-- they group photos based on a subject and want you to sign in to use their service, then they use your email for advertising purposes. The track is also mislabeled as "Fort Lewis Wa"-- which I believe to be highly suspect, since I was there in the early 70s and don't remember any Sheridans there. Another reason I dislike them, as stuff gets jumbled and mislabeled or miscredited. I note they "harvest" stuff off the web all the time. But this particular photo has to be a post Veitnam Sheridan, as it has a European "gumball" light and a LRF. Where it is, what unit it belongs to, and the story behind it is a mystery, and may remain a mystery unless someone steps up to claim it.
VR, Russ



Hi, Russ!

Several years ago, I signed up at Pinterest. They kept bugging me with these "Friend requests" from some really weird people. I couldn't wait to sign myself back out of Pinterest- It's just another "Facebook", that's all. I lasted about a week on Facebook and then I QUIT...
TrooperDoug
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Posted: Monday, March 25, 2019 - 10:48 AM UTC

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If it's the one with a very funky looking star and deep in mud, that's not our test mule. Another vehicle on that site is wildly mis-captioned. The main reason I despise these harvested photo collections



Another reason I dislike them, as stuff gets jumbled and mislabeled or miscredited. I note they "harvest" stuff off the web all the time. But this particular photo has to be a post Veitnam Sheridan, as it has a European "gumball" light and a LRF. Where it is, what unit it belongs to, and the story behind it is a mystery, and may remain a mystery unless someone steps up to claim it.
VR, Russ



"Mislabeled and miscredited"....exactly my peeve as well. Happens a lot, sometimes unintentionally and too often not. I share your doubts about Ft. Lewis as well, thought it's not impossible. I shipped out to VN from Ft. Lewis in '71 and did not understand there to be Sheridans there, and the same during the almost two years upon my return. The M551A1's became a part of the inventory after my discharge so I can't speak with any authority on where they might have been after that as I wasn't involved in any way with Army/armor doings again until the late '90's.
Havoc
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Posted: Saturday, March 23, 2019 - 06:39 AM UTC
Heya, Sherb!!!

Wanted to send out a belated and much-deserved Thank You for documenting and posting your Sheridan double-build!!! Much amazing info and insight!

Priceless pic of your young assistant! You are raising ‘em right, Sherb! Definitely a future contest winning modeler in training!!

Keep it coming, Sherb!

With Regards and Aloha,

Johnny B.

Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, March 22, 2019 - 02:25 AM UTC

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If it's the one with a very funky looking star and deep in mud, that's not our test mule. Another vehicle on that site is wildly mis-captioned. The main reason I despise these harvested photo collections



You got it right--that's the one. I mentioned I dislike Pinterest in my initial posting too-- they group photos based on a subject and want you to sign in to use their service, then they use your email for advertising purposes. The track is also mislabeled as "Fort Lewis Wa"-- which I believe to be highly suspect, since I was there in the early 70s and don't remember any Sheridans there. Another reason I dislike them, as stuff gets jumbled and mislabeled or miscredited. I note they "harvest" stuff off the web all the time. But this particular photo has to be a post Veitnam Sheridan, as it has a European "gumball" light and a LRF. Where it is, what unit it belongs to, and the story behind it is a mystery, and may remain a mystery unless someone steps up to claim it.
VR, Russ
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 10:23 PM UTC

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Hers the link to Hannants for the Aber Mesh S08 I;m sure once you get the aber no it will be available elsewhere :-)

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ABR35S08



Hi, Keith!

Thanks for posting the link to Hannant's- I'm a BIG FAN of ABER stuff!!!
Kornbeef
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 09:22 PM UTC
Hers the link to Hannants for the Aber Mesh S08 I;m sure once you get the aber no it will be available elsewhere :-)

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/ABR35S08
TrooperDoug
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 05:49 PM UTC
If it's the one with a very funky looking star and deep in mud, that's not our test mule. Another vehicle on that site is wildly mis-captioned. The main reason I despise these harvested photo collections
TrooperDoug
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 05:31 PM UTC

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Thanks for stopping by to check out the thread Doug.
I feel like a celebrity has come to visit.



"Celebrity" indeed, and I was hoping we could be friends!

Just a suggestion for fabbing up an exhaust extension...get a 155mm propellant canister and put the engine exhaust outlet atop it, or less frequently, the "diffuser". Both can be seen in diagrams below drawn from the TM's.

[img]https://gallery3.kitmaker.net/data/500/thumbs/EngineExhaustOutletTypess.jpg" BORDER="0">/image.file[/img]
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 04:59 PM UTC

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Russ, I think the star may be white and between dirt and a yellowed picture it appears yellow. All of the pictures I have from Germany 1977 to early 76 have yellowed dramatically. It was either the paper or the chemical they used at AFEES. A theory anyway.

Tom



White doesn't make much sense either-- since by the time the laser and the gum ball light were required, the colors would almost certainly have been changed to black. I'm wondering if this is a "colorized" photo put up on Pintrest-- there are so many inconsistencies. The size of the star is also strange. By the way, this indeed must be an original M551, brought up to A1 standards during the rebuild program. The presence of the old bore evacuator is the give away, since the new A1s were coming off the assembly line with the new CBSS system, which was retrofitted to the old guns. I understand less than 100 Sheridans were sent to Vietnam, but they didn't all have this gun tube, many had the new CBSS tube. This tube is very close to the prototype tube with the original scavenging system. The second generation tubes had the ring around the barrel, like in the Tamiya kit. Third generation tubes had no ring at all. Sheridans came and went periodically to the rebuild facility (in CONUS and in Europe). I was the Range 43 OIC at Graf when we had two brand new rebuild M551A1s come in February 1979, one of which promptly caught fire on the upload pad, burning completely to the ground overnight (short in the sub turret floor while loading ammo). So they were upgrading and rebuilding these things right up to the end-- evidently not very well from my Graf Fire experience!

Another thought just occurred to me-- maybe this is a test vehicle at Fort Knox or Aberdeen, of the early M551 undergoing the A1 acceptance testing? I suppose that would explain the laser, white star, and old gun tube? It would be nice to know the history of this photo.
VR, Russ

Would it be possible to send me or post a copy of the picture in question? I was on the Hughes LRF test project at the Armor Board (my first project there) in Q2, 1972 and our vehicle was OD, white stars and markings and obviously LRF equipped. I don't recall the gun tube configuration. Our bumper markings were distinctive and always featured the "TEST OPERATION" stencil on front and both sides. Thx!




---Unfortunately, it's in Pintrest, but the link to the page is here-- it's the Sheridan on the upper left of the page as it comes up:
https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/799037158867143188
VR, Russ
sherb
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 02:38 PM UTC
Thanks for stopping by to check out the thread Doug.
I feel like a celebrity has come to visit.
TrooperDoug
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 01:59 PM UTC

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Russ, I think the star may be white and between dirt and a yellowed picture it appears yellow. All of the pictures I have from Germany 1977 to early 76 have yellowed dramatically. It was either the paper or the chemical they used at AFEES. A theory anyway.

Tom



White doesn't make much sense either-- since by the time the laser and the gum ball light were required, the colors would almost certainly have been changed to black. I'm wondering if this is a "colorized" photo put up on Pintrest-- there are so many inconsistencies. The size of the star is also strange. By the way, this indeed must be an original M551, brought up to A1 standards during the rebuild program. The presence of the old bore evacuator is the give away, since the new A1s were coming off the assembly line with the new CBSS system, which was retrofitted to the old guns. I understand less than 100 Sheridans were sent to Vietnam, but they didnt all have this gun tube, many had the new CBSS tube. This tube is very close to the prototype tube with the original scavenging system. The second generation tubes had the ring around the barrel, like in the Tamiya kit. Third generation tubes had no ring at all. Sheridans came and went periodically to the rebuild facility (in CONUS and in Europe). I was the Range 43 OIC at Graf when we had two brand new rebuild M551A1s come in February 1979, one of which promptly caught fire on the upload pad, burning completely to the ground overnight (short in the sub turret floor while loading ammo). So they were upgrading and rebuilding these things right up to the end-- evidently not very well from my Graf Fire experience!

Another thought just occurred to me-- maybe this is a test vehicle at Fort Knox or Aberdeen, of the early M551 undergoing the A1 acceptance testing? I suppose that would explain the laser, white star, and old gun tube? It would be nice to know the history of this photo.
VR, Russ

Would it be possible to send me or post a copy of the picture in question? I was on the Hughes LRF test project at the Armor Board (my first project there) in Q2, 1972 and our vehicle was OD, white stars and markings and obviously LRF equipped. I don't recall the gun tube configuration. Our bumper markings were distinctive and always featured the "TEST OPERATION" stencil on front and both sides. Thx!
Removed by original poster on 03/22/19 - 01:48:57 (GMT).
TrooperDoug
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Posted: Thursday, March 21, 2019 - 01:29 PM UTC

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I also have the kit, my negative comment on all Tamiya kits is why in the world don’t they provide the damn PE sets with the kit?



A) It's not their marketing model. They make simple, well-engineered kits. I think all of their tank-sized kits can be built in a weekend.

B) There are enough slavish adherents to the company that they know the omission won't measurably affect the sales of the kit or their PE set. There are still those who will pass up a more detailed kit of a subject in the hope that Tamiya will make one.

No matter what amount of PE they add there will always be many people complaining that it's too little, too much, too simple, too complex, or just wrong. They've chosen to go toward the low end and appear to be happy with their choice.

KL



Another consideration, I am reliably informed, is to avoid having reliable kit supply interrupted by any hiccups in accessory supply. This is a legitimate concern. These items are not produced or purchased in a neat stoichiometric ratio. Different processes not occurring on parallel lines or even necessarily under the same roof.
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 09:37 AM UTC

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What is the difference between the full kit and the belly-only kit?
And how can you tell? I looked hard at your (and other) pictures but I just can't spot it.



The full kit includes sponson armor plates (TM drawing here, on page 3-128) ) You can see the plate fitted in the Vietnam picture below (above the first three roadwheels) :



You can compare it to this other one :



H.P.
alchemymike
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Posted: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 08:51 AM UTC
I tried looking up the Aber S508 diamond pattern mesh... couldnt find it...can you supply a link or a source to buy?
Wolfhound113
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2019 - 08:19 AM UTC

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Was the anti mine kit sometimes fitted uncomplete?
I've come across pics showing the whole kit fitted or just the floor plate.

Regards,

Marc



Hi,

Hey, that's interesting. I never know there was more than one type of kit.
All I ever heard about was some steel belly armour, and that it apparently only went halfway back.
What is the difference between the full kit and the belly-only kit?
And how can you tell? I looked hard at your (and other) pictures but I just can't spot it. (Maar misschien kijk ik met m'n oren, ha ha.)

Rgds,

Marc (yeah, another Marc)
sherb
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Posted: Monday, March 18, 2019 - 05:55 AM UTC
A small update.

These are the supports for the rear ammo rack. The only reference photos I could find (of a 3/4 Cav Sheridan)without ammo cans were of a rack that had been so badly mangled it wasn't even being used. This is my best guess.



Here is the rack (not yet glued in place). Reference phots seem to show these were made of angle iron with an inverted T piece (or double angle) running down the middle. Some show a second loop near the tops of the can made of pickets.



Probably should have been a can or two narrower. A couple photos showed jerry cans in holders as I have depicted so I added one.
Kornbeef
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 10:46 PM UTC

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Looking good,glad to see some images again at last.

How did you find the engine grill covers from Tamiya worked out? From the image they look rather fine compared to the awful effort Eduard have made, In fact the Eduard set on a whole is a bit of a disappointment IMHO

Keep the pics and info coming... Keith



The only thing I don’t like about Tamiya’s pe parts is that they’re made of a tougher material, stainless steel? It makes it a little harder to remove from the fret and to clean up the bits. Couple this with how fine and detailed they are and you can have a disaster on your hands. They do fit really well but you have to make sure you get all the burs off.



TY for updating me. Yes Tamiya use steel for some reason! Still looks better than Eduards.

I got some Aber S08 diamond mesh in the mail today and its realy nice and fine. I'll be using that. Eduards mesh completely hides the grilles beneath.

Eduards do do a reasonable chickenwire sheet though to make a rolled up anti-RPG screen though their pt no 00113.
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 07:42 PM UTC

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Ammo can from Armand Bayardi, M113 .50 cal mount from Tamiya.



Engine screens in place. Holes drilled out for the engine hatch grab handles.
A "common" modification was the addition of a powder canister exhaust extension. I unfortunately nicked the lip while drilling it out. Battle damage?





We've got a fairly free weekend so I'm hoping to add some tie down straps and more stowage. The loaders hatch is closed right now but it is actually functional and will be left open when I'm done.






Looking really FINE, Eban!!!
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 07:35 PM UTC

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Sherb, how do the Aluminum and plastic barrels compare?
VR, Russ



I tried to take a couple pics but they didn't do the barrels justice.

The plastic barrel is single piece which is slide molded and included the barrel rifling. There is a slight mold seem that needs to be sanded off.

The metal barrel not only has rifling but the rifling also has a twist to it.

Dimensionally and appearance wise, they are the same. I don't have any specs to say how accurate they are.

It's hard to say you NEED to get an aftermarket barrel to replace the plastic version. I like that fact that you can get both some really nice engine screens and barrel in the Tamiya "Detail Up" set for $12-15 more. Whether or not they should have been included in the kit to begin with is always a point for debate.



I don't really see the need for a debate on the barrels; IMO, that's up to the individual modeler. Speaking for myself, I would have gone for the TAMIYA Screens and Barrels, but in addition, I'd have bought the appropriate A/M Barrel from DEF- (They make two different types of Barrels for this kit)... But that's just ME being ME. DEF makes very nice stuff...

Incidentally, ANY Barrel Rifling, whether it's for a real 1:1 firearm or a 1/35 Main Gun, is machined by means of a special Broach, which is mounted in in lieu of the standard-type chuck in the lathe. CNC-machining has made this process much faster and more precise. It's really neat to watch this broach set-up in action...
M4A1Sherman
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 07:27 PM UTC

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Sherb, I'm sorry we seemed to have hijacked your thread. It did get me to buy the kit. Your doing a great job by the way.

Tom



What, are you kidding? I couldn’t have asked for a better thread.

My only qualifications are owning three Sheridan reference books....and they don’t go anywhere close to the detail you guys do.



Hi!

So after all of the (positive and instructive) palaver, how are you getting along in your build?



Well, my biggest mistake was starting a second Sheridan. Here is a shot of my 3 1/2 year old assistant:




Cute Jammies!!! Love IT!!!
sherb
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 01:14 PM UTC

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Sherb, how do the Aluminum and plastic barrels compare?
VR, Russ



I tried to take a couple pics but they didn't do the barrels justice.

The plastic barrel is single piece which is slide molded and included the barrel rifling. There is a slight mold seem that needs to be sanded off.

The metal barrel not only has rifling but the rifling also has a twist to it.

Dimensionally and appearance wise, they are the same. I don't have any specs to say how accurate they are.

It's hard to say you NEED to get an aftermarket barrel to replace the plastic version. I like that fact that you can get both some really nice engine screens and barrel in the Tamiya "Detail Up" set for $12-15 more. Whether or not they should have been included in the kit to begin with is always a point for debate.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, March 17, 2019 - 10:16 AM UTC
Sherb, how do the Aluminum and plastic barrels compare?
VR, Russ