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Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
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Scammell R100 painting scheme
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 05:57 PM UTC
Thunder Models boxed a 7.2“ howitser, which can be build as a 51 Heavy Artillery Regiment version.
Strange enough, their Scammell R100 model does not have decals for a tractor from this unit.
Does anyone know the painting scheme and isignia for a 51 HAR R100, please?
To my opinion it would have been logical to have decals for the same units as the options for the howitser.
Now I have build already the gun......

Thanks in advance

Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 07:58 PM UTC
Frenchy, do you have some photo‘s, please?
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 08:19 PM UTC
Back in June I had posted a link to Neil Craig's built of the 1/76th scale Milicast Scammel R100 and 7.2" Howitzer with 51st HR markings :

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/1-76-milicast-scammel-r100-and-7-2-howitzer-t163670.html

Unfortunately that's all I have to offer for the time being

H.P.
b2nhvi
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 08:27 PM UTC
Colorwise I'd presume SCC 2 brown base with SCC 1A or 14. Not sure 'bout AOS and such.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 09:42 PM UTC
Paul,

I would concur with the 1:76 model; the shield is the sign of 2nd Army, and "187" would be correct for 51 Regt as a component of the second Army Group Royal Artillery (AGRA).

The smaller sign "A2" indicates the second gun of A Troop, of the 1st Battery - I think - British formation sign methodology in WW2 can be a bit of a challenge!

Brian
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 02:41 AM UTC
Thanks to you all, this really helps me forward.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 04:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The smaller sign "A2" indicates the second gun of A Troop, of the 1st Battery!


If I may add, usually the gun sign was also seen on the doors of the tractor and possibly on the front in a similar position as the rear, i.e. over the tac sign.

As with most things, this was the rule but not always followed. If you have a photo, go by that, but without evidence to the contrary, the 4 positions of the gun sign were the nominal rule.

Similarly,m while the rule was that vehicles were not to be repainted in SCC15 unless it was needed, there is loads of anecdotal evidence that many, many units spent the waiting time before D-Day repainting their vehicles in SCC15. So while dark brown over "service colour" (i.e. brown) was the rule, it appears that most combat units were repainted to either straight SCC15 or Blue-Black over SCC15, per the 1/76 model.

Without photo or other evidence, you can probably pick either scheme and be safe.

Now, the rule notwithstanding, the heavy regiments were equipped half with the Brit 7.2" and Scammell and half with the Yank 155mm M1 and the Mack NO tractor. All the Yank vehicles came painted US OD and as there is nothing an RSM hates more than things that are not consistent, there is a strong bias that many heavy regiments were very likely in one colour scheme, i.e. OD, which, for the Brit equipment would be SCC15 plus the disruptive SCC 14 Blue Black.

So, again, your options are open between the two schemes.

Personally, I like seeing Brit vehicles in the browns...
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 08:31 AM UTC
Hi Paul,
Thanks for this explanation.
Now the colour schemes are clear to me.
Hopefully, either Thunder Models (to make a fit between both their howitser and their R100) or an enterprise like Star Decals pick up your info to create a right set of decals for both the gun and the tractor.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 08:58 AM UTC
Paul,

I don't think the gun itself sported any markings whatsoever - apart from, I imagine, data panels etc.

Archer do a set of Royal Artillery markings - see their sheet No AR 77030 - but these do not include the small square above the large square - if you see what I mean. Perhaps you can fine tune that using say, 1:76 or similar? Just a thought.

Brian
Removed by original poster on 09/11/19 - 21:16:05 (GMT).
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 09:12 AM UTC
Hi Brain,
The ‚problem‘ came to me as I started to build the howitser while at that moment not having the R100.
It never came to my mind that there would be no matching units between these models since the are relatively from the same production period and the same producer.
Therefore i choose the colour scheme from the 51 regiment with its typical grey blue camouflage scheme.
I guess I can paint the squares and use some ‚rubb-off‘ letters and numbers.
The unit code is a challenge.
Let‘s see: if modeling was easy everybody would do it!
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 09:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

HGW has released some 1/35th scale markings for the R100. Maybe at least a few would be usable for your project ?

https://hgwmodels.cz/en/wet-transfers/669-scammel-pioneer-r100-stencils-135-235004.html?search_query=R100&results=1

H.P.




C‘est ça!
Jusque je cherche!
Merci beaucoup.

It was you again who helped the ‚desperates‘ forward!


tankmodeler
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Posted: Friday, September 13, 2019 - 05:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It never came to my mind that there would be no matching units between these models since the are relatively from the same production period and the same producer.


As Brian said, there really weren't _any_ markings on _any_ of the heavy guns.


Quoted Text

Therefore i choose the colour scheme from the 51 regiment with its typical grey blue camouflage scheme.


grey-blue? No Royal Artillery or British army camo scheme was grey blue.

You have plain SCC2 Brown, SCC2 with SCC1a Dark Brown disruptive or SCC2 with SCC14 Tarmac (a blue-ish black) disruptive. Or you have plain SCC15 Olive Drab or SCC15 with SCC14 or plain Black disruptive. Those are pretty much your choices in NW Europe.


Quoted Text

I guess I can paint the squares and use some ‚rubb-off‘ letters and numbers.


Yes, that's a good way to do it if you find that the standard markings don't work for you , For the gun markings (e.g. "A2"), though, I think the Accurate Armour set should do you.


Quoted Text

The unit code is a challenge.


If you mean the 2nd Army formation sign, I think Accurate Armour has that sign in one of their other decal sets and if you don't go that route, it's a pretty simple sigh to hand paint. A simple shield shape plus a blue cross and a sword shape in the middle in a golden yellow (not gold) You also see them with just the shield and blue cross, no sword. The cross shape can be cut from an appropriate piece of decal film. I have been known to use the blue bits of an old USAF roundel decal...

Paul
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, September 13, 2019 - 06:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

C‘est ça!
Jusque je cherche!
Merci beaucoup.



You're welcome Paul, but the HGW markings are for the 54 HAR, not the 51 HAR (that's why I've delated my post...)

H.P.
Paulinsibculo
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Posted: Sunday, September 15, 2019 - 05:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It never came to my mind that there would be no matching units between these models since the are relatively from the same production period and the same producer.


As Brian said, there really weren't _any_ markings on _any_ of the heavy guns.


Quoted Text

Therefore i choose the colour scheme from the 51 regiment with its typical grey blue camouflage scheme.


grey-blue? No Royal Artillery or British army camo scheme was grey blue.

You have plain SCC2 Brown, SCC2 with SCC1a Dark Brown disruptive or SCC2 with SCC14 Tarmac (a blue-ish black) disruptive. Or you have plain SCC15 Olive Drab or SCC15 with SCC14 or plain Black disruptive. Those are pretty much your choices in NW Europe.


Quoted Text

I guess I can paint the squares and use some ‚rubb-off‘ letters and numbers.


Yes, that's a good way to do it if you find that the standard markings don't work for you , For the gun markings (e.g. "A2"), though, I think the Accurate Armour set should do you.


Quoted Text

The unit code is a challenge.


If you mean the 2nd Army formation sign, I think Accurate Armour has that sign in one of their other decal sets and if you don't go that route, it's a pretty simple sigh to hand paint. A simple shield shape plus a blue cross and a sword shape in the middle in a golden yellow (not gold) You also see them with just the shield and blue cross, no sword. The cross shape can be cut from an appropriate piece of decal film. I have been known to use the blue bits of an old USAF roundel decal...

Paul



Hi Paul,
Thanks for your input.

This is what Thunder Models shows on their box:

https://www.google.nl/search?q=british+gun+instruction+thunder+model&client=safari&hl=nl-nl&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4mdnHzdTkAhVBKVAKHZCAACEQ_AUoAXoECA0QAQ&biw=1024&bih=698#imgrc=bmZn8sapwC8OEM

There is a photo of a gun, painted like that, operating in the southern part of The Netherlands in 1944.