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Discuss on research, history, and issues dealing with reference materials.
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Questions about IJN Akagi aircraft carrier
Wolf-Leader
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New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2020 - 09:46 AM UTC
ok I would like to ask a couple of questions about the IJN Akagi aircraft carrier hours before the attack on pearl harbor.

1.What was the total amount of planes the Akagi had on the first wave of the attack?

2.What type of planes did the Akagi have on the first wave of the attack?

I have heard that there was only 27 Nakajima B5M "kate" torpedo bombers while 9 of the mitsubishi A6M "zero" attacked the airfields. So if my calculations are correct,what I was reading states the there was only 36 planes that took off from the Akagi on the first wave of the attack? That doesn't make sense.

3.So how many aircraft from the IJN Akagi did take off on the 1st wave and what were they?
Thank you.
Quincannon
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Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2020 - 01:04 PM UTC
"Rangers Lead The Way" Well as one to another I will let you in on a little secret, a Ranger secret. If every one of the Rangers that said they heard and personally witnessed Brigadier General Norm Cota,at the time the assistant division commander of the 29th Infantry Division, make that statement to Max Schneider's 5th battalion Rangers on Omaha Beach, there would have been nothing but rangers in the U S Army of 1944.

Personally I don't know if Cota said any such thing. I have heard both sides of the issue, but it does make a heck of a good story. I even have a coffee mug from Benning with Rangers Lead the Way on it.

Same goes for those that said they were the very ones that said " General Lee to the Rear" during the Battle of the Wilderness in 1864. Had the number that claimed to say that, been all that said they had, you would be living today in the Confederate States of America.

Now down to business. I don't know the answer to your question, but I know where to find it, and if I get a chance after church tomorrow I will research it for you, and let you know.

Now about what does not make sense to you. There were as you know six carriers in the Pearl Harbor raid. In the years preceding the war the Japanese had developed integrated strike packages from multiple carriers, under one designated strike leader. At Pearl that leader was Fuchida. It was not unusual then for each of the carriers involved to contribute part of their air group, that when combined with those of other carriers would form the strike package. The strike on Midway Island on the morning of 4 June 42 was composed of aircraft from all of the carriers as well, that time under Tomonaga from Hiryu.

If you are interested in Japanese Naval aviation from Pearl to Midway, let me suggest "Shattered Sword". It is an invaluable reference. Its counterpart for the USN is "First Team", another cannot do without book.
sighbeerguy
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Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2020 - 03:27 PM UTC
Perhaps of some help.

http://www.navweaps.com/index_oob/OOB_WWII_Pacific/OOB_WWII_Pearl_Harbor.php




Quincannon
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Posted: Saturday, January 11, 2020 - 05:17 PM UTC
In late 1941 Akagi's air group consisted of 63 aircraft, Zeke's, Val's and Kate's.

I have the squadron/type breakdown somewhere in what I laughing call my library, but what most folks call a basement.

That number of 63 is down from the time she was reconstructed in the mid 1830's when she was rated at 91. Since reconstruction though aircraft entering the fleet were larger, and heavier, which accounts for the downsizing of the air group
Quincannon
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Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2020 - 02:44 PM UTC
Jody: I am sorry to say that I could not lay my hands on the material you requested. I still think I have it somewhere, and will continue to try.

Meantime, you might want to go to the Steel Navy website, and pose that question to a fellow named Dan Kaplan. He is very sharp on the IJN information.

Meantime, I would like to hear about what you're going to do with this info. In my mind's eye, I see a model of Akagi as she appeared in the very early morning hours of 7 December 41, with the Akagi portion of the first strike package warming up on deck, with a tiny little figure of Fuchida Mitsuo running toward his Kate.
Wolf-Leader
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2020 - 08:25 AM UTC
Thank you chuck for the info the you have given me so far to enhance my IJN Agaki project.
As for what you will see your just about right.I want to portray the agaki in a way that when you see her in the moments just before the attack,you will get the sense of anticipation, excitement and overall attention to detail that each and everyone of those personnel had a duty to their cause. At that time,the awesome might of the IJN!
Thank you.
Quincannon
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2020 - 08:54 AM UTC
Jody: The fun in all this is to recreate a vision of history. That's why I do it anyway. The model brings the written word alive once more.

I started doing this seriously (not counting my childhood modeling adventures) after I retired from Uncle Sam's Army. I became interested in certain historical periods, among them them first year of the war in the Pacific (when the odds were fairly even - skill prevails). The Battle of the Bulge, Afrika Korps vs, 8th Army, and Korea (which I consider the first modern war of the 20th century). So when I read Prange, Fuchida, or " Shattered Sword" I am prone to pull down a Soryu and see just where those bombs hit, and access for myself what happened thereafter.

Good luck on the project. I will be keeping a close eye out on your progress.

As a sidebar, a friend of mine in England pointed me to a video this morning of a scratch built Enterprise in 1/144 scale. It was made of wood, but I suppose he got some of the fittings from aftermarket sources. That's not the tale though. The tale is that he brought the model alive with the figures and aircraft doing whatever people and aircraft do on the real thing.
Robbd01
#323
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2020 - 10:23 AM UTC
I have a very lofty project of doing a display of the Kaga and the planes that flew off her on 6/7 Dec. I have a 1/700 Kaga kit which I would only put 1 each of the 3 types of aircraft she carried at the time. The ship would sit in the back of display with just 1 of each type of aircraft on the flight deck (tiny little planes, not much detail). I then got in 1/48th the 3 types of aircraft. I would mount the 1/48 planes on flight deck bases in front of the display. I would then take thread and somehow figure out a way to make it change to the size of yarn and place each thread/yard from the little plane on the Kaga model to the 1/48 display base of each type of aircraft. It was going to be my 'Bird's of Kaga'. Fast forward a decade or so and I have expanded it to doing a similar display with the Zuikaku but as she looked in 1944 in the Battle of Leyte gulf. This has not gone to far because I have not researched what aircraft were aboard her at that time. In end of this glorious display(s) it was going to be called the First and Last. Meaning, that of the carriers that took part in the attack on Pearl, The Kaga was first to be sunk (Midway) and the Zuikaku the last to be sunk (Battle of Leyte Gulf).

So far I have only gotten as far as making a nice pile of kits and bases stored carefully in a box with AM decals and PE.

As for a good book on Pearl Harbor, there is an ebook (Apple Store) called "Attack on Pearl Harbor" by Bert Kinzey

Cheers

Quincannon
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Posted: Monday, January 13, 2020 - 04:47 PM UTC
Robbie: What a splendid idea. If you don't mind I am going to pass it on to a friend of mine who does model work for the National Museum of World War II Aviation here in Colorado Springs.

The museum is fairly new, but already has accumulated 24 World War II vintage aircraft, all in flyable condition, including a beautiful SBD-5.
Robbd01
#323
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 - 08:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Robbie: What a splendid idea. If you don't mind I am going to pass it on to a friend of mine who does model work for the National Museum of World War II Aviation here in Colorado Springs.

The museum is fairly new, but already has accumulated 24 World War II vintage aircraft, all in flyable condition, including a beautiful SBD-5.



Yea, Pass it on.

Cheers