login   |    register
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Tamiya P-38 Build Log
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 06, 2011
entire network: 3,958 Posts
KitMaker Network: 563 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2020 - 08:43 AM UTC
Well it has been a while since I have done one of these, and most of them are over on the armor side. But I hope you will bear through with this not so great aircraft builder for this one.

The P-38 has always been a favorite of mine, but based on the kits out there, I was always a bit skeptical about wanting to build one. But then came along the Tamiya newly tooled kit. If you are looking for a review, I reviewed it here

So with most aircraft builds, it starts with the 'office'. Here I stayed out of the box, painted using Vallejo Green Zinc Chrome, details picked out with Vallejo colors and a couple of washes using the same.




I used the kit supplied decal for the instrument panel, after the dull coat to seal it, I used a little Micro Kristal Klear to add the 'glass' to the instruments.



I also started on the nose, and decided to add a little Master details.


To get these in there, I took the kit bracket, cut off the barrels, drilled a hole to line up, and mounted them with CA.



Looks a lot better then what the kit offered.


Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2006
entire network: 4,569 Posts
KitMaker Network: 640 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 12, 2020 - 09:25 AM UTC
Looks good,gotta follow this one.
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 06, 2011
entire network: 3,958 Posts
KitMaker Network: 563 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 01:46 AM UTC
SO after a week delay due to assembling track for my Bronco Ram II build I got back to this for a little work. It does look like Tamiya put a little thought into the design and ability to keep the nose landing gear on the ground.

This is just one of three weights that are included in the kit, and as can see, a little cradle is molded in.



The fit is really good, just a couple clamps to ensure the glue joints are tight.



And you can see the ball weight fits in there real nice.



The exhausts build up nice. Just watch to get the right parts for the version you are building.



So hoping to get a little more done this weekend, so watch for possible update Sunday night.
magnusf
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: May 02, 2006
entire network: 1,836 Posts
KitMaker Network: 16 Posts
Posted: Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 07:28 PM UTC
I would love Tamiya to shrink this one to 1/72 but until then I enjoy your build ! Beautiful!



Magnus
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
entire network: 4,319 Posts
KitMaker Network: 20 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 05:35 AM UTC
Hi, Kevin and Everyone Else!

I've had a LOT of additional health-issues since the beginning of November, 2019- Hopefully, I can get back to building, soon. In the meantime, I've purchased four, that's right, FOUR of the new 1/48 TAMIYA P-38 F/G Lightning kits. That's not counting a Christmas gift for a friend, either!

I will be following Kevin's build with great interest...

I'm sticking my big nose in at this point, mainly because I came across some P-38 information SOMEWHERE, and I CAN'T for the life of me remember where I originally read this. Has this ever happened to any of you..? I've been combing through all of my books and periodicals trying to locate exactly where I came across this information. It MAY even have been on line, somewhere. A build/review, maybe? I'll find it sooner or later, as I have all kinds of time on my hands, anyway...

This info concerned the earlier batches of P-38s, from the Lockheed Model 322-B, (This was the British export version, with BOTH Props turning "Right-Handed" and NO Superchargers, according to RAF/British Air Ministry Specs & Requirements!!!), the P-38D, thru the P-38E, F, G-variants and midway thru the P-38H block of Lightning-production. This info concerned EXTERIOR and INTERIOR COLORS, and reading this stuff kind of threw me for a loop, no pun intended!!!

According to the writer, (I forget WHO the he was), this info was obtained from one of his relatives, (I THINK an Aunt of his) who, if memory serves, worked in the Lockheed Paint Shops. RAF paints, that's right, as in ROYAL AIR FORCE PAINTS, were used on and in the above-mentioned earlier P-38 production-block airplanes...

Please bear with me, because I really don't want "to put a bee in anyone's bonnet"!

It seems that RAF INTERIOR GREEN paint was used in the earlier-versions of P-38 COCKPITS, with the appropriate "normal" colors for US-made electrical boxes, oxygen hoses, radios, etc. THIS was ONLY as far as the Cockpits were concerned. All other INTERNAL structures, Landing Gear bays, Gun Bay, etc, were the left in the "normal" NMF ALUMINUM or painted in their appropriate US-style ZINC CHROMATE and/or other colors, which was inconsistent(?) with the normal WWII RAF INTERIOR GREEN. I can understand this to an extent, since different components of aircraft were assembled in different sections of the manufacturers' facilities, hence the discrepancies...

Now, we come to the P-38 early-blocks' EXTERIOR color schemes...

HOO-BOY!!!

Let's remember that the RAF and the Air Ministry sent their official Purchasing Commission to the United States with the idea of buying US-made military aircraft to supplement their hard-pressed aircraft industry. Keep in mind that this was transpiring during the height of the "Battle of Britain". The British-export Model 322-Bs, as nearly every P-38-fan knows, were painted in the more-or-less Standard British Day-fighter Camouflage Colors of RAF DARK GREEN and RAF DARK EARTH "mirror-patterns" on their Upper surfaces, with SKY Type-S Lower surfaces initially, and subsequently, with RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY Lower surfaces. Some 322-Bs were sent to Great Britain for testing and evaluations. As it turned out, these 322-Bs didn't fare very well.

The British returned this small batch of Lightnings to Lockheed, since the Model 322-Bs failed to meet RAF-requirements. Now, Lockheed built the 322-Bs IN ACCORDANCE WITH RAF-SPECS, and these Lightnings FAILED because the British SPECIFICALLY requested "Right-handed" Prop-rotation for BOTH Engines and NO Superchargers, DESPITE Lockheed's warnings! NO WONDER the Model 322-Bs turned out to be DOGS!!! The British CANCELLED their contract with Lockheed, outright. Suffice to say, Lockheed was going to sue for "Breach of Contract". The British responded with, "Go ahead and try!" The whole "donnybrook" was settled in Washington D.C. without any publicity, I'm assuming behind "closed doors"...

As it happened, the British weren't very happy with our P-400s, which wound up in the Pacific-Theatre, or our P-40s, which wound up with the RAF in Africa, mainly in the ground-attack role. OK, 'nuff said on that score...

Lockheed, in anticipation of big RAF orders not only for their Model 214-B Hudsons, but also for the Model 322-B Lightnings, received HUGE stocks of British camouflage paints, direct from Great Britain. Supposedly, after the British rejected the 322-Bs, Lockheed touched base with the US Army Air Corps, soon to become the US Army Air Forces, regarding the use of these RAF paints. The story goes that the US Air Corps' "Powers That Be" gave Lockheed the "OK" to go ahead and use all British paint stocks until they were gone, (except for the RAF DARK EARTH, for some reason or other), and THAT'S how earlier P-38s wound up being painted in RAF DARK GREEN and RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY colors on their Upper and Lower surfaces(?)... WHEW!!!

The BIGGEST "BUGABOO" in all of this is that in the VAST MAJORITY of model-related publications, any and ALL P-38s in camouflage-paint, the color "call-outs" refer to US OLIVE DRAB over US NEUTRAL GRAY or MEDIUM GRAY, depending on the publication...

Since we're mainly concerned with the earlier P-38s intended for use with the US Army Air Forces, let me run this by you:

The piece I read categorically stated that BESIDES the RAF INTERIOR GREEN-painted Cockpits, the P-38Ds thru midway in the H-block, were actually painted with RAF DARK GREEN Upper surfaces, and RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY Lower surfaces. That also explains why, (for me, anyway), there seems to be a tonal variation in surviving color photographs, where earlier P-38s are parked or flying in relatively close proximity to other USAAF aircraft such as US OLIVE DRAB over US NEUTRAL or MEDIUM GRAY-painted P-39s, P-40s, etc. This is even taking into account weathering, relative age of the subjects in the photos, etc...

For me, at least, this discrepancy in colors has always been a "head-scratcher", because RAF DARK GREEN is NOT OLIVE DRAB, and neither is RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY the same as US NEUTRAL or MEDIUM GRAY. And CERTAINLY, RAF INTERIOR GREEN is VERY different from US ZINC CHROMATE GREEN, ZINC CHROMATE YELLOW, and US INTERIOR GREEN! Let's not even "get into" the US BRONZE GREEN Cockpit colors found in later Republic P-47s and certain Grumman-built WWII aircraft...

So, here we have yet ANOTHER LONG DIATRIBE over accurate color-representations on the Kit Maker Network!

Nevertheless, I would LOVE to get some feedback/opinions and mainly, some CONFIRMATION of this info, before I go making some HUGE MISTAKES in the painting processes of my new TAMIYA P-38s!!!

VR, Dennis
markiii
Visit this Community
California, United States
Member Since: September 07, 2006
entire network: 29 Posts
KitMaker Network: 4 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 07:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi, Kevin and Everyone Else!

I've had a LOT of additional health-issues since the beginning of November, 2019- Hopefully, I can get back to building, soon. In the meantime, I've purchased four, that's right, FOUR of the new 1/48 TAMIYA P-38 F/G Lightning kits. That's not counting a Christmas gift for a friend, either!

I will be following Kevin's build with great interest...

I'm sticking my big nose in at this point, mainly because I came across some P-38 information SOMEWHERE, and I CAN'T for the life of me remember where I originally read this. Has this ever happened to any of you..? I've been combing through all of my books and periodicals trying to locate exactly where I came across this information. It MAY even have been on line, somewhere. A build/review, maybe? I'll find it sooner or later, as I have all kinds of time on my hands, anyway...

This info concerned the earlier batches of P-38s, from the Lockheed Model 322-B, (This was the British export version, with BOTH Props turning "Right-Handed" and NO Superchargers, according to RAF/British Air Ministry Specs & Requirements!!!), the P-38D, thru the P-38E, F, G-variants and midway thru the P-38H block of Lightning-production. This info concerned EXTERIOR and INTERIOR COLORS, and reading this stuff kind of threw me for a loop, no pun intended!!!

According to the writer, (I forget WHO the he was), this info was obtained from one of his relatives, (I THINK an Aunt of his) who, if memory serves, worked in the Lockheed Paint Shops. RAF paints, that's right, as in ROYAL AIR FORCE PAINTS, were used on and in the above-mentioned earlier P-38 production-block airplanes...

Please bear with me, because I really don't want "to put a bee in anyone's bonnet"!

It seems that RAF INTERIOR GREEN paint was used in the earlier-versions of P-38 COCKPITS, with the appropriate "normal" colors for US-made electrical boxes, oxygen hoses, radios, etc. THIS was ONLY as far as the Cockpits were concerned. All other INTERNAL structures, Landing Gear bays, Gun Bay, etc, were the left in the "normal" NMF ALUMINUM or painted in their appropriate US-style ZINC CHROMATE and/or other colors, which was inconsistent(?) with the normal WWII RAF INTERIOR GREEN. I can understand this to an extent, since different components of aircraft were assembled in different sections of the manufacturers' facilities, hence the discrepancies...

Now, we come to the P-38 early-blocks' EXTERIOR color schemes...

HOO-BOY!!!

Let's remember that the RAF and the Air Ministry sent their official Purchasing Commission to the United States with the idea of buying US-made military aircraft to supplement their hard-pressed aircraft industry. Keep in mind that this was transpiring during the height of the "Battle of Britain". The British-export Model 322-Bs, as nearly every P-38-fan knows, were painted in the more-or-less Standard British Day-fighter Camouflage Colors of RAF DARK GREEN and RAF DARK EARTH "mirror-patterns" on their Upper surfaces, with SKY Type-S Lower surfaces initially, and subsequently, with RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY Lower surfaces. Some 322-Bs were sent to Great Britain for testing and evaluations. As it turned out, these 322-Bs didn't fare very well.

The British returned this small batch of Lightnings to Lockheed, since the Model 322-Bs failed to meet RAF-requirements. Now, Lockheed built the 322-Bs IN ACCORDANCE WITH RAF-SPECS, and these Lightnings FAILED because the British SPECIFICALLY requested "Right-handed" Prop-rotation for BOTH Engines and NO Superchargers, DESPITE Lockheed's warnings! NO WONDER the Model 322-Bs turned out to be DOGS!!! The British CANCELLED their contract with Lockheed, outright. Suffice to say, Lockheed was going to sue for "Breach of Contract". The British responded with, "Go ahead and try!" The whole "donnybrook" was settled in Washington D.C. without any publicity, I'm assuming behind "closed doors"...

As it happened, the British weren't very happy with our P-400s, which wound up in the Pacific-Theatre, or our P-40s, which wound up with the RAF in Africa, mainly in the ground-attack role. OK, 'nuff said on that score...

Lockheed, in anticipation of big RAF orders not only for their Model 214-B Hudsons, but also for the Model 322-B Lightnings, received HUGE stocks of British camouflage paints, direct from Great Britain. Supposedly, after the British rejected the 322-Bs, Lockheed touched base with the US Army Air Corps, soon to become the US Army Air Forces, regarding the use of these RAF paints. The story goes that the US Air Corps' "Powers That Be" gave Lockheed the "OK" to go ahead and use all British paint stocks until they were gone, (except for the RAF DARK EARTH, for some reason or other), and THAT'S how earlier P-38s wound up being painted in RAF DARK GREEN and RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY colors on their Upper and Lower surfaces(?)... WHEW!!!

The BIGGEST "BUGABOO" in all of this is that in the VAST MAJORITY of model-related publications, any and ALL P-38s in camouflage-paint, the color "call-outs" refer to US OLIVE DRAB over US NEUTRAL GRAY or MEDIUM GRAY, depending on the publication...

Since we're mainly concerned with the earlier P-38s intended for use with the US Army Air Forces, let me run this by you:

The piece I read categorically stated that BESIDES the RAF INTERIOR GREEN-painted Cockpits, the P-38Ds thru midway in the H-block, were actually painted with RAF DARK GREEN Upper surfaces, and RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY Lower surfaces. That also explains why, (for me, anyway), there seems to be a tonal variation in surviving color photographs, where earlier P-38s are parked or flying in relatively close proximity to other USAAF aircraft such as US OLIVE DRAB over US NEUTRAL or MEDIUM GRAY-painted P-39s, P-40s, etc. This is even taking into account weathering, relative age of the subjects in the photos, etc...

For me, at least, this discrepancy in colors has always been a "head-scratcher", because RAF DARK GREEN is NOT OLIVE DRAB, and neither is RAF MEDIUM SEA GRAY the same as US NEUTRAL or MEDIUM GRAY. And CERTAINLY, RAF INTERIOR GREEN is VERY different from US ZINC CHROMATE GREEN, ZINC CHROMATE YELLOW, and US INTERIOR GREEN! Let's not even "get into" the US BRONZE GREEN Cockpit colors found in later Republic P-47s and certain Grumman-built WWII aircraft...

So, here we have yet ANOTHER LONG DIATRIBE over accurate color-representations on the Kit Maker Network!

Nevertheless, I would LOVE to get some feedback/opinions and mainly, some CONFIRMATION of this info, before I go making some HUGE MISTAKES in the painting processes of my new TAMIYA P-38s!!!

VR, Dennis


IIRC, it is Tom Cleaver.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
entire network: 4,319 Posts
KitMaker Network: 20 Posts
Posted: Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 10:48 PM UTC
THANK YOU, Mark!!!

OK, guys and gals, for some great further reading on this subject plus an interesting build of Jack Ilfrey's P-38F, "Texas Terror/The Mad Dash", see the MODELING MADNESS TAMIYA P-38 F/G Build/Review by TOM CLEAVER, as so ably found by MARK, call-sign markiii...

Also, please DO read Kevin's review of this beautiful P-38 kit, as he mentioned in his opening post of his build! If you don't already own one of these kits, do yourself a favor and GET ONE!!!

And Mark, THANKS AGAIN for finding that build/review of the TAMIYA P-38 F/G by Tom Cleaver...

VR, Dennis
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 06, 2011
entire network: 3,958 Posts
KitMaker Network: 563 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 12:57 AM UTC
So I have now moved on to the booms, and typical Tamiya, everything seems to be going together very well. The boom landing gear bays are well done.



They were given a coat of black primer then Vallejo Metal colour.



And again more weight from Tamiya for the front of the booms.



Test fit shows the booms fit well.





And you can see in the background what is causing regular work being done on this

Now I did have a bit of a seem issue with the side boom scoops, but nothing a little putty and sanding did not fix.



As you can see it is now taking shape, up next complete the cockpit and see how well the Tamiya provided canopy masks work out.
betheyn
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#019
Visit this Community
England - South East, United Kingdom
Member Since: October 14, 2004
entire network: 4,535 Posts
KitMaker Network: 709 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 02:48 AM UTC
Looking good so far Kevin, typical Tamiya with very little issues fit issues.
I wish that other companies would be that ingenious with how the weights are fitted.
Andy
Tojo72
Visit this Community
North Carolina, United States
Member Since: June 06, 2006
entire network: 4,569 Posts
KitMaker Network: 640 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 01, 2020 - 06:06 AM UTC
They both look great.
Tamiya did something similar woth the Me262 by making the nose wheel well metal to add weight.
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 06, 2011
entire network: 3,958 Posts
KitMaker Network: 563 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 15, 2020 - 02:20 AM UTC
Back at it again this weekend, working on completing the cockpit. While Tamiya provided a decent looking seat, they only provide a decal for the seat belts, that to me does not look great when done. So I replace the seat with one from UltraCast, with molded on seat belts.


Now Tamiya does provide the canopy masks, I was a little shocked to find out they are not precut, so get the scissors out.


The cockpit assembled, given a quick wash with AK Interactive Panel Liner, just waiting on final matt coat.


The landing gear does go together well and dry fit show it goes in nicely.



Now back to bench for some more work on this nice kit.
SgtRam
Staff MemberEditor-in-Chief
AEROSCALE
#197
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 06, 2011
entire network: 3,958 Posts
KitMaker Network: 563 Posts
Posted: Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 02:47 AM UTC
Little more work. The assembly of the sites in the front of the canopy are pretty straight forward, but I may have rushed it. From the inside, it does look a tad off center now that the glue has dried,



Now with the canopy on, starting to look closer to done. Those masks sure made quick work of it.



I will give the canopy a coat of the interior color prior to priming.

I have also started to put together landing bay doors, and they look to be nicely detailed.



Next up, will be adding some of the finer details, wash the model, and then a coat of Tamiya Finer Primer.

M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
entire network: 4,319 Posts
KitMaker Network: 20 Posts
Posted: Sunday, February 23, 2020 - 07:56 AM UTC
Hi, ALL!

Looking GREAT, Kevin! Just a little side-comment in reference to Kevin's mention and subsequent use of TAMIYA's Canopy Masks; I purchased different sets of the Canopy Masks made by EDUARD. One set for an F-version, and three sets for G-versions. The Canopies were different between the Fs and Gs...

I plan to build one of my P-38Gs as an "H" in ETO-service, based in the U.K. The P-38H was identical to the G, except INTERNALLY, that being because of newer, more powerful Engines; Instrumentation was also slightly different, but I've got that covered with a YAHU P-38H Instrument Panel. The EDUARD Canopy Masks are pre-cut, and I've had good luck with them, using them on some of the "newer" kits out there. I made sure that I bought the slightly more expensive ones with the External and INTERNAL Masks, which should produce good results for me. Hope that my EDUARD Canopy Mask sets will fit as well as the TAMIYA Canopy Masks look on Kevin's P-38, which IS looking VERY FINE, INDEED!!!

Once I start feeling better, I've got a WHOLE BOAT-LOAD of the latest new kits waiting for me to get into...

VR, Dennis
AikinutPGH
Visit this Community
Alabama, United States
Member Since: April 25, 2015
entire network: 36 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 28, 2020 - 02:51 AM UTC
just got mine. I have kits to finish before I can start. I love Tamiya kits, haven't had many fit issues!

My hold up is cataracts, one replaced and the other due next month. I have no depth perception! putting glue and paint pretty close but not on target, so I have stopped work until both eyes are done and have new prescription glasses.
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
entire network: 4,319 Posts
KitMaker Network: 20 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 28, 2020 - 04:52 AM UTC
Hi, Jim!

You will not regret buying this kit, even if you're "not big on P-38s"- I AM, so this new P-38 kit was an absolute boon for me! I would love it if (and when), TAMIYA gets around to releasing a P-38J/L Lightning, since this kit shows "obvious" provisions for the "later" J/L models in its engineering. It would really only be a matter of re-engineering the Engine Nacelles, the Superchargers and corresponding Booms, and a few of the Cockpit details, notably the different "twin Pistol-grip"-style Control "Wheel".

Upon the announcement of this P-38F/G kit, many modelers expressed their disappointment in TAMIYA not releasing a P-38J/L, instead. I am probably in "the minority" here, but I for one was very happy to see the F/G coming out first. I always preferred the sleeker "look" of the earlier P-38D-through H over the kind of 'bulbous" J/Ls. Now if only TAMIYA would release some US WWII Bombers-

I know; they'd be REALLY EXPENSIVE!!!

Jim, if you haven't yet invested in TAMIYA's P-47D and M kits, do yourself a favor and do so! Also get a couple of EDUARD's P-51Ds, while you're at it!

I had cataracts, too- I got both of my eyes done in 2001. I've had great luck and absolutely NO regrets. This is a procedure I would highly recommend for anyone with cataracts. The preparation actually takes longer than the procedure itself, just to dispel any concerns some of the other readers may have about getting cataract surgery. You'll see so much better, and the colors of EVERYTHING will become more vibrant...

Jim, GOOD LUCK with your next procedure!

VR, Dennis