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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Research for my current project
Lada_Niva
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Drenthe, Netherlands
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 04:07 AM UTC
Hello everyone,

Since some days now, I'm working on my newest project.
The Somua S 35 from Tamiya.
I'm wanting to do some research to answer some off my still remaining questions.
But, I don't know how and where to look for the answers.
So I need the help off you, probably more experienced on doing this kind off research then I am.
My first question: How can I find the rich and detailed information in English about the divisions that are listed on the painting and markings guide that came with the kit?
Because I'm not finding that much off detailed and very specific information. And I'm really curious to know more about the topics that I'm modelling now.
Secondly, how did the French apply their camouflage patterns?
Because, I don't see any soft edges at all at the markings and paintings guide. That suggests to me that it is done with a brush. But I remember one video, a shot off it I guess. Where they did spray the paint on. It was on a turret for the tank.
And my last question, how do I apply the camouflage pattern with also a spray can? Because the brown color is in a spray can. And I already have watched a video about using spray cans. But couldn't really find a video that explained how to apply camouflage with a spray can included.
These were my questions, I hope that you can help me with them.
And hopefully, in time. Because I'm already building my project. And I really want to paint it afterwards.
Well, have a nice day,
Lada_Niva
18Bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 05:32 AM UTC
For a two tone (or even three) spray the base coat on first. If you want a hard edged pattern, you can use silly putty or something similar to mask of the demarcation lines. Or you can lay some masking tape on a piece of plexiglass, cut out the desire pattern with an X-Acto knive, and apply to the tank.

For softer edges you can still use putty - it depends upon whether you spray at ninety degrees to the model or if you vary the angle a bit. I like to enlarge the cammo pattern in the instructions to 1/35 scale, and cut the pieces out. I add them to the model but raise them off of the model's surface a bit with balls of putty or masking tape. This will leave a very crisp soft edge. In 1/35 soft edges appear nearly hard.
If you're doing a pattern that has black demarcation lines between the colors you can use any method, and then paint the black on by hand afterward.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 09:37 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hello everyone,

Since some days now, I'm working on my newest project.
The Somua S 35 from Tamiya.
I'm wanting to do some research to answer some off my still remaining questions.
But, I don't know how and where to look for the answers.
So I need the help off you, probably more experienced on doing this kind off research then I am.
My first question: How can I find the rich and detailed information in English about the divisions that are listed on the painting and markings guide that came with the kit?
Because I'm not finding that much off detailed and very specific information. And I'm really curious to know more about the topics that I'm modelling now.
Secondly, how did the French apply their camouflage patterns?
Because, I don't see any soft edges at all at the markings and paintings guide. That suggests to me that it is done with a brush. But I remember one video, a shot off it I guess. Where they did spray the paint on. It was on a turret for the tank.
And my last question, how do I apply the camouflage pattern with also a spray can? Because the brown color is in a spray can. And I already have watched a video about using spray cans. But couldn't really find a video that explained how to apply camouflage with a spray can included.
These were my questions, I hope that you can help me with them.
And hopefully, in time. Because I'm already building my project. And I really want to paint it afterwards.
Well, have a nice day,
Lada_Niva


This book is a good starting point.
https://www.amazon.com/Panzer-III-Somua-35-Belgium/dp/1782002871/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Somua+S-35&qid=1585690543&s=books&sr=1-1
Lada_Niva
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 07:32 PM UTC
Thank you Gerald for the reply.
I did see those kinds off books when I was doing research for my project.
But the title suggests to me that the book compares the two tanks to each other. And that they don't give very much information off the actual tank itself, the Somua S 35.
For example, that they are doing a comparison between the speed off the two vehicles. Instead off giving the fine details off this vehicle.
Anyway, I will take a look for this book. Thx again for the reply.
Lada_Niva
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Posted: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 - 07:42 PM UTC
Thank you Robert for your nicely detailed reply to my questions.
Maybe you have some pictures or something visual to share with me?
To make it more clear to me what you are wanting to show me?
Because, now I'm reading the reply. And I don't really have a picture or something visual for me to try and experiment with.
I did look on Google Images for the terms as silent putty and X-Acto Knive? But don't really have a picture or something that you want to show me with this particular methods.
Maybe it helps to post a link off my paintings and markings guide off the project I'm working on to scalemates? That you have a rough idea what we are talking about here?
Sorry that I didn't do that right away, guess I didn't thought on that.
Thanks again for the reply.
Paintings and markings guide Somua S 35
GaryKato
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 12:36 AM UTC
There are also books on S.35 published by Editions du Barbotin.

Grauwolf
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Posted: Wednesday, April 01, 2020 - 04:14 AM UTC
The "Silly Putty" method"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v31Jk6CL9PE

Lada_Niva
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 01:45 AM UTC
Thank you Joey for sharing that very informative video with me.
Now I know exactly how I have to do the 'silly putty' method.
And how I simply can apply the most realistic camouflage pattern on my latest project.
Thanks again for your contributing.
Lada_Niva
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 01:47 AM UTC
Thank you Gary for sharing the book with me.
The problem however, is probably that I can't understand the French language.
Maybe it would be smart to learn a few words in French?
So that I at least have a vague understanding off the French language to read reference material.
Thanks again for your reply.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 10:11 AM UTC
The Editions du Barbotin "Trackstory" book on the Somua S-35 is bilingual, French and English. The bad news is, it has been out of print for many years (which is why I directed you to the Osprey book).

Allied-Axis Vol. 33 has a nice photo essay on the S-35 in French and German service. Ampersand is out of business, but there are still copies available online.
Bulldog
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 10:21 AM UTC
David Doyle Books has the Axis Allied book on the Somua35 still in stock and a fair price I added it to my collection of book awhile back. Not a great deal of tech data on the tank but really clear photos of them in German service act. Regards, Brock
GaryKato
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 12:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The Editions du Barbotin "Trackstory" book on the Somua S-35 is bilingual, French and English. The bad news is, it has been out of print for many years (which is why I directed you to the Osprey book).



The original TrackStory #1 is still available on CD/ROM. The newer TrackStory #11 is still available in print according to their online store.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Thursday, April 02, 2020 - 02:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The Editions du Barbotin "Trackstory" book on the Somua S-35 is bilingual, French and English. The bad news is, it has been out of print for many years (which is why I directed you to the Osprey book).



The original TrackStory #1 is still available on CD/ROM. The newer TrackStory #11 is still available in print according to their online store.


Good to know that the publisher still offers it. Online searches turned up nothing.
tankmodeler
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2020 - 08:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm wanting to do some research to answer some off my still remaining questions.


To start with there's not a lot of English language information on French armour, so we are all in the same boat in may ways. If you are looking for detail images for a model, there are any number of photo sites and luckily, photos don't need to be viewed in any one language.

When it comes to typical armoured troop practices, such as how they were painted, etc. it's pretty much unknown in written English works. It may be virtually unknow at all. A lot of any of this information and experience was lost in the collapse of 1940, The best most of us can get is to look at photos and imagine how what we see was created. For the hard-edged camo schemes it is generally assumed to have been brush painted at the time. The use of masks to allow air sparaying is highly unlikely. If it has a hard edge, it's almost guaranteed to have been brush painted.

I have seen a couple of books, in Engish regarding the various French armoured formations, but that information is neither rich nor exceptionally detailed. I have seen some significant books and unit histories i French bookstores, but they are all in French and some, I'm very sure are loooong out of print.

Paul
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Posted: Friday, April 03, 2020 - 10:35 AM UTC
I agree with your assessment about the brush painting back then. Ford was brush painting cars, so I doubt the French army was using spray guns.
Lada_Niva
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Posted: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - 04:22 AM UTC
Thank you all for replying to my post. I didn't really thought of this post anymore, because I'm nearly finished by now with my current project. And I'm also working hard on my own subreddit. So, didn't really get to this again. But I have found where I found the footage or a shot of where the French are actually spraying the paint on a turret. I didn't really know where I saw it but here it is: Footage of a factory worker spraying paint on a turret Look at: 8:52 of the video and you will a second or so, that they are spraying paint on the turret.
I hope to be getting more active here as soon as possible. But can't really find the time really to do all these things at such a fast rate.
CMOT
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - 04:41 AM UTC
The Link below may help with some details.
Bovington Somua
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Posted: Tuesday, April 14, 2020 - 04:44 AM UTC
The use of spray guns is mentioned twice in this article dealing with B1Bis camo schemes :

https://www.chars-francais.net/2015/index.php/marquages-camouflages/b1-bis-camouflages

H.P.