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Thoughts on Telford 2006
Holdfast
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 07:40 PM UTC
In conversation over last weekend at Telford the fact that none of us actually entered the competition was highlighted. Not a problem, I have no incling to enter competitions and I don't really understand the rules and comments I've read about judging leaves me uninterested. However how about an IPMS ArmoramaUK "Campaign" to enter a model each in the competition next year?
Mal
betheyn
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Posted: Thursday, November 24, 2005 - 08:45 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have no incling to enter competitions and I don't really understand the rules and comments I've read about judging leaves me uninterested. However how about an IPMS ArmoramaUK "Campaign" to enter a model each in the competition next year?
Mal


My sentiments exactly (also my models aren't good enough yet to enter :-)). A campaign would be a good idea. What i think would help is to find some IPMS judges on Armorama and get people who enter post pics of every stage of construction and painting to get feedback from said judges.
Also what are the rules for judging, are they super critical because the kit you made was inaccurate, i.e its 1cm too short, theres 4 rivets missing from the left hand widget , the colour is two shades out and so on. So i think we should find and post the rules up. I'll enter as I'm a masochist who likes being shot down in pieces once in awhile :-) .
Andy (++)
Holdfast
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2005 - 08:17 AM UTC
I'll see about getting a copy of the rules. I think the actual judging is up to the individual judge, but if you get the basics right, eliminate seam lines get alignment correct etc, then you should be half way there. I personally don't care what the judges think, the problem is that if a model with all the hatches open and festooned with all the latest aftermarket items always wins then modellers will start to think that that is the way to win competitions. I personally think that there should be seperate catagories for this. I'm not sure how it works but I get the impression that if you add anything other than what is allowed in the OOB catagory then it is classed as detailed. That might mean that if I just add seat belts it will be detailed, up against a model that has aftermarket cockpit, undercarriage, control surface and other detailing with aftermarket decals as well. Doesn't seem quite right to me.
Anyway I'm now planning on entering 2 a 1/32 FW190D-9 and something in 1/48. The FW will have loads of goodies but the 1/48 will have nothing apart from seat belts and possibly aftermarket decals. I might do a natural metal finish as well, just to cover a few bases, but I wouldn't expect to come anywhere.
Mal
betheyn
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2005 - 08:32 AM UTC
Hi Mal, I visited the IPMS forum earlier and there seems to be quite a debate going on about the different classes and categories. Hopefully they will sort it out by next years Telford show (but i wouldn't hold my breathe :-) ). There is another category (that i didn't know about) which is the 'country members' which is open too IPMS UK members only.
Andy
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2005 - 10:58 AM UTC
Hi Mal - I knew that name should mean more to me than it did :-) :-) :-)
I didn't connect Holdfast with you, from my days over on Armourama.com I thought of you as America based... Just shows I've inhaled too many fumes down the years.
I thought the stand was a superb effort, and quite put the shine on the new branch! I'd like to base the IPMS Armour SIG next to you and the Armour TAS next year if you are in favour - after all, these Airheads should be taught all about how wonderful it is to model Mud Cutters
Aitch
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2005 - 11:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What i think would help is to find some IPMS judges on Armorama



Guilty as charged... I've judged for a long time and got all the bruises to show for it too.
As Derek Barton will tell you it's a matter of drilling down until you find the kit with the best of each element you are judging.
Way too many kits have glue marks on 'em, or a wheel not touching the ground when it should.
But it gets hard work, - and enjoyable too - when a few models are so good that you have to resort to nit picking or rivet counting to decide which is the 'best' model.
We don't count rivets as a hobby - despite what some modellers think.

The IPMS have dozens of different classes for OOB models, models with additions, or even scratchbuilts. But - and before anyone asks - I have disqualified a model described as 'scratchbuilt' which was in fact a collection of after market parts entered by a modeller with a very thick wallet, but a very thin hide...
Don't let anyone put you off entering your model. I still treasure my one and only Commended award from a few years ago
betheyn
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2005 - 11:34 AM UTC
I'd be happy with a "that looks quite good" :-) :-)
Andy (++)
P.S I'll enter something, don't know what yet though
Holdfast
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Posted: Friday, November 25, 2005 - 10:34 PM UTC
Andy,
I'll try and get over to the IPMS forum and stick in my twopence worth.
The country members branch, for those that aren't affiliated to any branch, is actually part of IPMS ArmoramaUK, now. Or lets say I'm administering that as well.
I bet your far too modest.

Derek,
I think it's quite clear that alot of modellers don't enter the competitions because they don't understand the rules, or they don't understand the catagories. I understand that you can't have to many catagories, otherwise entrants are spread too thinly, but with a bit of forward thinking the current catagories might stand a bit of a change. Without understanding fully what is allowed it's difficult to comment further, so this is just a "feeling".
I would never question a judges decision, I might not like it or agree with it, but once made that's it. We all have our likes and dislikes, but it should never be decided on because of who the modeller is rather than the model.
I would be interested in hearing your views on competitions and judging.

Howard,
Hi, have we met? I spoke to alot of people at SMW.

Quoted Text

I thought the stand was a superb effort, and quite put the shine on the new branch! I'd like to base the IPMS Armour SIG next to you and the Armour TAS next year if you are in favour - after all, these Airheads should be taught all about how wonderful it is to model Mud Cutters


Thanks, particularly for the compliment of asking for us to be based along side you. Next year though we are planning an "internet Cafe" style stand and may take up Hall 3 by ourselves
The branch stand may have had mostly armour on display but I actually build wingy things I used to build targets and I might do a couple in the future, but Aircraft is what I do. I think I'm flatered that you think I model armour
Mal
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Posted: Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 04:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The branch stand may have had mostly armour on display but I actually build wingy things I used to build targets and I might do a couple in the future, but Aircraft is what I do. I think I'm fltered that you think I model armour
Mal



You are the man out front so you get the compliments

Umm... I had three photographers take particular interest in my Fireball XL5. I didn't have the heart to tell them that it was the diecast model that I'd bought on the Friday night from Mr Models :-) so you don't have to apologise for not being the author of every model on display...

BTW are you thinking of a full on Internet cafe to browse the Armorama site..? That would be interesting. Keep me posted as I may be able to help - my day job is in IT.
Aitch
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Posted: Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 09:52 PM UTC

Quoted Text

"The basic structure should be of plastic although a supporting (wooden) core is permitted"




Quoted Text

... Such coverings should be cosmetic, NOT STRUCTURAL" (my caps).



Sorry Derek, I don't see a problem with those two rules. The core of a model CAN be of wood, but it CAN'T be of Decal or cloth etc. It could quite easily be plastic.
The IPMS rules have functioned for many years. Over the years extra rules have had to be bolted on as resins and metals have become more popular.

One big addition has been to define what is 'scratch built'. I have been presented with an Airfix Clipper covered in metal foil that was described as scratchbuilt. At the other end of the balance a 1/72nd single seat biplane - the fuselage cut into twelve sections and re arranged to get the correct profile, with scratchbuilt wings and cockpit, honestly described as converted. Both in the same class. One set of rules to cover the two.

There is a case to change the IPMS rules and make them easier to understand. I expect Richard will welcome any offers of help to form a working party to review the rules. I shall be the second to volunteer after you Derek.
Holdfast
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Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 07:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

BTW are you thinking of a full on Internet cafe to browse the Armorama site..? That would be interesting. Keep me posted as I may be able to help - my day job is in IT.


We are looking at having 2-4 PCs running on a hard wired Internet connection. The wireless connection was too hit or miss. The idea being that punters can acually log in to Armorama and this site to take a look. It also means that the trade can be shown what we are like. It will cost, but it will be worth it, we need a number of PCs for a start, so if you know where we can get some, cheap, let me know. The connection cost for the weekend is currently 210, I'm looking for sponcers

Howard,

Quoted Text

Sorry Derek, I don't see a problem with those two rules. The core of a model CAN be of wood, but it CAN'T be of Decal or cloth etc. It could quite easily be plastic.
The IPMS rules have functioned for many years. Over the years extra rules have had to be bolted on as resins and metals have become more popular.


Your right of course but I think that this might be the fundemental problem behind the rules. Yourself and alot of other IPMS members, who may have had a hand in writing the rules (I'm not suggesting you did) obviously will understand them. Someone, like me, looking at them with the notion of entering the competitions for the first time, will be put off completely if they don't understand them. "Bolting on" additions is always going to upset the balance. If a bolt on seems necessary then surely the rule requires re-writing? There is a saying, "keep it simple", works every time.
Mal
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Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 07:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The idea being that punters can acually log in to Armorama and this site to take a look. It also means that the trade can be shown what we are like.



Do you actually need a live connection just for Armorama .com and .co.uk..? How about getting a DVD of the site from Jim and loading it on the hard drive - that way no 'orrible little tyke is going to try for a porno website when he thinks no one is looking


Quoted Text

we need a number of PCs for a start,



I can find a minimum of one, give me some time and I may be able to get upto three for you.

You are right about the IPMS rules being complicated, Derek has posted a start, and I'll be commenting on his suggestions- we'll get them sorted - the hard part will be getting all the IPMS members to agree :-)
Holdfast
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Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 07:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Do you actually need a live connection just for Armorama .com and .co.uk..? How about getting a DVD of the site from Jim and loading it on the hard drive - that way no 'orrible little tyke is going to try for a porno website when he thinks no one is looking


I actually bought a web capture programme which at first seemed to work, but when I came to capture Armorama, no joy. The site is huge and cannot be contained on one DVD.

The live link is the way to go, for punters to really get the feel of the place. Thanks for the offer of a PC, I'll let you know

Howard are you the guy taking over the Comp?
Mal
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Posted: Friday, December 02, 2005 - 06:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Howard are you the guy taking over the Comp?



Not me - I did many years of local comps and even more years of Judging...

It is possible to rip the website to a hard drive, then clone as many hard drives as needed from that one copy. Best let Jim know in advance as it pulls the bandwidth down something alarming.
Alternatively you'll need a router and possibly a smoothwall type box to distribute your broadband to each PC - with no guarantees that it will actually work untill the due day... Scary stuff !!!
I expect there are enough IT types to get it all running on the day though.
Holdfast
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Posted: Friday, December 02, 2005 - 07:58 AM UTC
Thanks for the info, I knew about the router but not the smoothwall box. The International Centre garuntee a hard wire connection so we should have a good chance, if we get one PC on a live link that will be cool.

Quoted Text

I can find a minimum of one, give me some time and I may be able to get upto three for you.


Oh, sorry Howard, I didn't spot the "up to three" bit before posting my last reply. That would be cool, but my previous attempts at showing Armorama on a PC met with very limited success, due to the fact it was an old one. I guess though that your 3 will be up to the task so double cool, Ta.
Mal