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 Community Forum: Kiwi Korner
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LAV Overseas deployment
Brigandine
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Dunedin, New Zealand
Member Since: July 12, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 07:06 AM UTC
Are any of the LAVs currently deployed overseas? There's nothing to indicate that (for example)our troops in Afghanistan have LAV support. Just wondering why not?
TankTrap
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Invercargill, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 07:40 AM UTC
Im going to have to say its because NZ is to cheap for that kind of thing.
I dont think they would risk losing one of them over there.
andy007
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 09:54 AM UTC
Jeff,
I think out of all our forces the LAV's are the least likely to be deployed. As David says our government isn't particularly known for their support of the Military, It would just cost to much for them and...... hey what would they getout of it?
cohiba
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:11 AM UTC
My understanding is that we have previously deployed NZLAVs to Australia.

There would be no (positive) benefit in deploying them anywhere we are currently trying to keep the peace in the Pacific or reconstruct stuff in Afghanistan.

Nothing says 'we don't like you' as well as sending in 'tanks'.

Remember it took nearly 40 years before we deployed our M113s operationally.
Brigandine
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Dunedin, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 07:00 PM UTC
And yet, here we have the NZ Army saying that the LAVs are ideal for peacekeeping operations [ur]http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/equipment/nzlav/default.htm[/url] - in other words not one of the 105 vehicles us taxpayers payed for is currently being used for one of the purposes for which they were bought.

I have heard that the gearboxes in the LAVs are an el-cheopo variant and that our authorities were advised BY THE MANUFACTURERS not to use them if they new what was good for future LAV use. I can't find any confirmation, so I'm taking this as rumour...If our media had any backbone they should be investigating the truth of this, rather than chasing stories about cops possibly watching porno movies 26 years ago...
Brigandine
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Dunedin, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 07:10 PM UTC
And yet, here we have the NZ Army saying that the LAVs are ideal for peacekeeping operations [ur]http://www.army.mil.nz/our-army/equipment/nzlav/default.htm[/url] - in other words not one of the 105 vehicles us taxpayers payed for is currently being used for one of the purposes for which they were bought.

Here's an Auditor General's report from 2004 that makes interesting reading http://www.oag.govt.nz/2004/lav/part1.htm
http://www.oag.govt.nz/2004/lav/part2.htm
http://www.oag.govt.nz/2004/lav/part3.htm
http://www.oag.govt.nz/2004/lav/part4.htm
Hmm...funding shortfalls for LAV spares and training equipment. Wonder if any of those have been rectified?
andy007
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 03:24 PM UTC
Jeff,
I too have heard that rumour about the LAV gear boxes.
That report does not surprise me, Didn't Helen Clark buy the Anti Aircraft missile without the Laser designators?
As you can probably tell I am not one of Helen Clarks fans I think more spotlight needs to placed on our military or lack off.
Brigandine
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Dunedin, New Zealand
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Posted: Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 05:54 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jeff,
I too have heard that rumour about the LAV gear boxes.
That report does not surprise me, Didn't Helen Clark buy the Anti Aircraft missile without the Laser designators?
As you can probably tell I am not one of Helen Clarks fans I think more spotlight needs to placed on our military or lack off.


The media in NZ needs a good kick up the rear end - these are the things that need to be investigated; we're stuck with
about cops allegedly watching porno movies 26 years ago. Fergawdsake!

(Takes deep breath and goes back to the modelling bench to calm down...
nzgunnie
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Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 02:33 PM UTC
It was the gearboxes in the LOV (Pinzgauers) that were giving problems, and these were rectified under warranty. The NZLAV has had issues with the tie rods snapping.

The Mistrals don't have laser designators, but they were originally purchased without the IFF and cueing equipment (radar), and relied on the operator picking up the aircraft visually.

The LAV has deployed to Australia for exercises.

Remember that the NZDF personnel in Bamiyan are there as a provincial reconstruction team, mostly being responsible for rebuilding infrastructure, EOD and helping out the locals. Not a task that a large offensive looking 'tank' is well suited for. The locals in Bamiyan are pretty sick of conflict and are pretty well disposed towards the Kiwis, who with our usual flair for getting on with everybody are doing a pretty useful job there.

And for the record I'm not one of uncle Helen's fans either, since I lost my job when she disbanded the air combat force in 2001.

andy007
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Posted: Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 02:44 PM UTC
Jeff, You are right about the media they need to get their priorities straight, I really don't care if a Cop was watching porno 26 years ago. Cheers for clearing that up Phil, I agree with you on the Afghanistan thing, they are not part of the aim for the reconstruction team. Do you think they would be used in a similar way to what the M113's were in East Timor back in 1999?
Brigandine
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Posted: Friday, May 18, 2007 - 08:39 AM UTC
Thanks Phil; just looking at the NZ army deployments overseas and I see what you mean about the LAVs probably being counter-productive.
scottmikenz
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Auckland, New Zealand
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Posted: Monday, July 16, 2007 - 06:15 PM UTC
Any decision to deploy LAV really looks at the requirement for its protection and firepower.

Additional problem in Bamiyan is that you just couldn't drive LAV there. Its heavily rutted winding narrow mountain tracks for the most part - completely unsuitable for LAV which is a pretty big vehicle. Canadians use LAVIII in Kabul and in the more open/desert conditions in the south of Afghan.

Whilst LAV may not be a good peacekeeping image - kiwis are known for working their way around such problems with the locals. All it would take is for a few LAVs with the Light Obstacle blade on to clear some roads of snow, and help out some locals with the winch/tow cables and we could still get a good rep.

Despite Helen, I'm sure there is considerable pressure to deploy LAV operationally to prove it isn't just a big lemon. I know the guys love the vehicle and coundn't think of anything better!
andy007
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, August 03, 2007 - 05:35 PM UTC
Hi Mike,
Welcome to the site, I am guessing from your post that you are currently in the military? ethier way your post is very informative and I agree with everything you said, I think the key thing with the NZLAVIII's are that if the troops like them then they must be alright.
SJPONeill
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Hamilton, New Zealand
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Posted: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 12:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Despite Helen, I'm sure there is considerable pressure to deploy LAV operationally to prove it isn't just a big lemon.



What do you mean 'Despite Helen'? Who do you think signed the cheque for the LAVs, LOVs, Javelin, the Protector fleet, the new helos, the C-130 upgrade, the P-32K upgrade, etc, etc, etc....?
cadredave
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Friday, August 15, 2008 - 12:12 AM UTC
Hi all the reason we cant deploy NZLAV is this, The NZ Army is stretched to breaking point to send this vehicle over seas we will have to drop either Timor/Solomons or the PRT and that is not going to happen. when we deployed Whiskey Coy to Predator Gallop in Aussie it took the whole of 2nd Logistic Battalion to spt them the problem with our small army is simple we are just to small it got ditto to do with gear boxes or aunty helen its our size.
kiwisoldier
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New Plymouth, New Zealand
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 02:03 PM UTC
All I can say is that any type of armour support is better than none and I take that a number of you are just firing blanks and not been up the sharp end.I say let them who make the big D's make the d and let Ironside and Foxhound make it work.
thomokiwi
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 - 11:04 PM UTC
Always remember to be wary of what you say, when you don't know the background of those you speak to.

Have a good one

cheers
Thomo
russ
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Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 01:56 PM UTC
Well said Thomo and Dave.

You can't send what you don't have.


Russ
kiwisoldier
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New Plymouth, New Zealand
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Posted: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 11:15 AM UTC
All my comment was directed at was that this is a hobby site not a soap box to vent our country's defence problem. SHOT OUT!!!!!