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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Searching for a Camel
armouredcharmer
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 10:48 PM UTC
Hi Guys, Can anyone recommend a 1/32nd scale Sopwith Camel.
I will consider anything but I have to draw the line at the Wingnut Wings offering, in short I cannot afford it so I`m looking for a half decent alternative.
Thought I`d come here and ask as you guys always seem to have the right answer.
Cheers, in advance, Danny.
Jessie_C
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Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 12:53 AM UTC
Your choices are Hobbycraft or Academy. The Hobbycraft kits are more desirable given that the Academy offering is a straight pantograph of the ancient Revell 1/28 kit. Look for the "Le Rhone" (HC1693) or "Clerget" (HC1694) "black" boxes, not the one with the unspecified engine in the grey box (HC1681) (That one is the same mould as the Academy kit). Here's a page full of reviews.

The two "black" boxings are getting quite rare these days, You may need to haunt Evil-bay to find one.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 02:50 AM UTC
And here's link to my article over on Large Scale Planes about building the Hobbycraft "Camel Aces" black box kits:

https://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=3147

I agree 100% with Jessie, try and avoid the Academy or early Hobbycraft kits if you can. They are virtually identical, and are rather poor renditions with trench-like engravings, incorrect and simplified details, and "wave crest" ribbing in the wings. The later Camel "Clerget and LeRhone Aces" boxings by Hobbycraft were totally new kits with subtle rib tapes, totally new parts (except for the wheels) are far more accurate and are still quite acceptable with a little work, if you add an inexpensive Tom's Model Works British Aircraft PE set, a little brass rod and wire, some EZ line, and perhaps some wood for the interior, they build into a very nice replica. My article explains what's needed.
VR, Russ
gajouette
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Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 06:52 AM UTC
Danny,
Even the original HobbyCraft Camel can be built up nicely. Here's an example.






If you find the new tool HobbyCraft Camel kits these both would be a less demanding build than the original kit.The Academy clone is the same as the HC original. Hope this helps you my friend.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette
Jessie_C
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 02:18 AM UTC
I tried to post direct links to Greg's images, but there's something very broken going on with them. Sorry
Removed by original poster on 04/12/18 - 00:25:04 (GMT).
gajouette
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 05:34 AM UTC
Jessie,
I hope I didn't do something wrong by posting photos of my Camel.
Here's the direct links.

https://s19.postimg.cc/ji0lb2zib/IMG_1944.jpg

https://s19.postimg.cc/4nbzwwpxf/IMG_1946.jpg

https://s19.postimg.cc/m365ylow3/IMG_1948.jpg

Feel free to delete the first posted photos if needed. Sorry if caused a problem.
Highest Regards,
Gregory Jouette

Jessie_C
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 09:08 AM UTC
It wasn't a problem, just the links were broken somehow. Your new ones work
armouredcharmer
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 11:18 AM UTC
Hi All, Thanks for all the replies so far, Has anyone built the Italeri kit?. I can find those kits you recommended on E-Bay but the trouble is they are all overseas and to import them into the UK would cost a ton import tax.
Hence the question about the Italeri kit.
OEFFAG_153
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 12:08 PM UTC
If memory serves – the Itaileri kit s the old – non desirable, grey box Academy/Hobbycraft kit. Italieri borrowed the moulds for the old Nie 17 as well. This one had good decals though...

/Mikael
WIggus
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 06:15 PM UTC
I'm surprised that Roden did not make one, but Scalemates.com confirms that they did not.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 09:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi All, Thanks for all the replies so far, Has anyone built the Italeri kit?. I can find those kits you recommended on E-Bay but the trouble is they are all overseas and to import them into the UK would cost a ton import tax.
Hence the question about the Italeri kit.



Yes-- the italeri kit is the Academy/old Hobbycraft kit re-boxed with new markings. Over the years I've built almost all the Sopwith Camel boxings out there-- the old Hobbycraft, Academy, New Hobbycraft, Academy/Italeri, the Revel 1/72 and 1/28 kits, Aurora/Monogram, the Guillows wood kit, Hasegawa kit, and now the WnW kit. I think the only Camel kit I haven't built is the Academy 1/72 kit. I don't know how much import tax is in the U.K., but if you can find the "Clerget" or "LeRhone" "Aces" boxings, they might be worth the import tax for a more accurate Camel. The Academy/old HobbyCraft/Italeri boxings have a tremendous amount of work to get the kit accurate:
1) cowling is to thick, has mold seams/sinks and incorrect cooling vent openings
2) forward fuselage access ports have huge trenches, are oversized and the carburetor intakes are miss-shaped, with the "cutout pan" at the bottom of the fuselage behind the cowling being a triangular part which should be rounded in shape.
3) engine is a poor representation, with oversized and incorrectly positioned push-rods
4) upper and lower wings are too thick, have oversized and exaggerated rib detail and "valleys", and the aileron attachment points are poorly molded. You'd need to sand down both wings, add rib detail, remove the ailerons and clean them up if you wanted an accurate model. Out of the box, the wings are the worst part of this kit followed by the forward fuselage and cowling-- but it's almost a toss up with the amount of work required.
5) The interior is rather poor, with innacurate and simplified detail (The newer hobbycraft kit is better, but still needs a little work).
6) fuselage detail is exaggerated and rather heavy/thick in spots.
7) the wheels have exaggerated "lace and loop" detail which needs to be removed (unfortunately the same wheels make an appearance in he newer hobbycraft boxing too). These will need to be corrected to a more accurate shape and look.

So-- you can see there are many, many problems with the Academy/old Hobbycraft/Italeri kit. The newer "Aces" kit eliminates most (but not completely all-- wheels for example) of these issues. If you want a cheaper semi- accurate alternative to the uber accurate WnW kit, go with the newer "Aces" boxing. If you just want a cheap "place-holder" Camel, or are willing to to do extensive work to get it more or less accurate, go with the old Hobbycraft/Academy/Italeri kit. I don't agree with Jessie that's it's a pantographed kit of the Old Revell 1/28 model either-- that Revell kit wasn't bad for it's time-- far better in detail than the old Hobbycraft kit is. It is true that Hobbycraft re-boxed a crude knock off of the Revell 1/28 Fokker Dr1 kit but they kept the scale at 1/28-- this has confused a lot of modelers into believing they were getting a "new" Dr1 and that the Camel was Pantographed. Over the years Hobbycraft has repackaged many kits from other manufactures including Revell and 1/32 Trumpeter kits but they've done it under license. The old Camel kit, and the newer offering are all thier own design. I haven't got a clue as to why they've never re-issued the newer kit, but now that WnW is on the scene, it's not likely these kits will re-surface, but I suppose anything is likely. I believe this is why WnW decided to release a new Camel, as thier competition was either just poor or non-existent.
VR, Russ
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 - 10:49 PM UTC
Have you considered 1/48? Sure that Eduard and Roden have some really ones and will be easier to find.
I got bought the Academy 1/32 Camel for Christmas and it's not great. Probably use it to practice rigging on or maybe convert it to the Trench Fighter prototype.
armouredcharmer
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Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 12:10 AM UTC
Hi Gang, Just to give you an idea of how bad import duty is here in the UK here's an example. I have always been into Mustangs ever since I was a child and building 1/32nd scale aircraft is an interesting diversion from my usual 1/35th scale armour (coupled with the fact that at 50 my eyesight aint what it used to be! ).
Anyway the chance came up on E-Bay to own two of my dream kits - Hobbycraft's A-36 and P-51, Bids in, I paid $125 for each plus shipping (cue sobbing credit card ) in short HM government charged me £25 to release each kit - Robbin` B*+T%*&s
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 12:26 AM UTC
Wow-- that's unbelievable-- does it go that way for items shipped inside the commonwealth or is it just from countries outside the commonwealth? Talk about stifling trade! It almost would make it worthwhile to buy a new WnW kit at Hannant's wouldn't it? Aren't they the U.K./ Europe distributor for WnW? What are they going for in the U.K.?
VR, Russ
armouredcharmer
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Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 10:28 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Wow-- that's unbelievable-- does it go that way for items shipped inside the commonwealth or is it just from countries outside the commonwealth? Talk about stifling trade! It almost would make it worthwhile to buy a new WnW kit at Hannant's wouldn't it? Aren't they the U.K./ Europe distributor for WnW? What are they going for in the U.K.?
VR, Russ



Hi Russ, Hannants have a USAS version going for £53, which is a little out of my price range at the moment. Furthermore HM Government does stifle trade over here, you would think I was importing the real thing for the duty they want to charge!.
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 01:32 AM UTC
I've just ordered myself that one while it's on sale.
Honestly, I would seriously consider grabbing one for that price. You won't find one cheaper. It will also save you a lot of time and extra costs improving another kit.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, April 13, 2018 - 04:16 AM UTC
The beauty of the WnW Camel kits is they have most of the parts in the box for any of the other Camel kits they offer. I have the BR1 and the USAS kits (it's a long story, but they sent the wrong kit, so my wife ordered another). Except for engines and decals, the plastic is the same in both kits. Stephen is right though, by the time you correct all the deficiencies in any of the previous kits-- you might as well buy a WnW kit. Good luck with whatever you decide.
VR, Russ
CaptainA
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Posted: Monday, April 16, 2018 - 10:58 PM UTC
I agree with Jessie and Russ. I built the old Hobbycraft kit. I was not real impressed with it. But it was my first build after about a twenty year absence from the hobby. I proudly put it in my display case. After a few months, the decals fell off. I decided I would not waste time on substandard kits. Yes, it will look like a camel with work. But I love the wingnut kits. I have a closet full of them. Yes they are costly, but you really get what you pay for. Good luck
Kevlar06
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Posted: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 - 04:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I agree with Jessie and Russ. I built the old Hobbycraft kit. I was not real impressed with it. But it was my first build after about a twenty year absence from the hobby. I proudly put it in my display case. After a few months, the decals fell off. I decided I would not waste time on substandard kits. Yes, it will look like a camel with work. But I love the wingnut kits. I have a closet full of them. Yes they are costly, but you really get what you pay for. Good luck



Yes-- the old one was bad (and hence repackaging it in the Academy/Italeri boxing, it hasn't improved any). But the newer Hobbycraft "Aces" kit is much better, and quite acceptable with some TLC. It would be a nice price alternative to the WnW kit for many-- but what's happened to Hobbycraft? they've gone silent the last several years.
VR, Russ
armouredcharmer
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Posted: Friday, April 20, 2018 - 11:38 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I agree with Jessie and Russ. I built the old Hobbycraft kit. I was not real impressed with it. But it was my first build after about a twenty year absence from the hobby. I proudly put it in my display case. After a few months, the decals fell off. I decided I would not waste time on substandard kits. Yes, it will look like a camel with work. But I love the wingnut kits. I have a closet full of them. Yes they are costly, but you really get what you pay for. Good luck



Yes-- the old one was bad (and hence repackaging it in the Academy/Italeri boxing, it hasn't improved any). But the newer Hobbycraft "Aces" kit is much better, and quite acceptable with some TLC. It would be a nice price alternative to the WnW kit for many-- but what's happened to Hobbycraft? they've gone silent the last several years.
VR, Russ



IIRC HobbyCraft got out of the kit business years ago, Hence why their kits trade hands on E-Bay at almost silly prices.
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Saturday, April 21, 2018 - 02:15 AM UTC
Your best bet would be to keep a look out on Kingkit and hope they have one for a reasonable price.
Just had a look on evilbay and there's a Clerget Aces boxing for sale from a seller in Greece at 48 quid plus 17 for postage. So more than Hannants recently had the WNW USAS boxing. That sale price has now ended unfortunately and it's back to full rrp.

If you don't to pay those sorts of prices but still want a quality kit, maybe 1/48 is an option. Revell currently have one for a reasonable price which I believe is a reboxed Eduard kit? Maybe others could confirm that.

Best of luck and I hope you find what you want.