login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Vietnam
All things Vietnam
Hosted by Darren Baker
RPG Hits
GreenBooRay
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: April 23, 2009
entire network: 52 Posts
KitMaker Network: 19 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 03:00 AM UTC
Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 17,689 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,967 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 03:11 AM UTC
An RPG makes a small hole with spalling and burn marks around it. The hole is created by a molten jet of metal created by the shaped charge. It is like a blow torch going through the metal.



Scarred
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 11, 2016
entire network: 1,778 Posts
KitMaker Network: 482 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 03:20 AM UTC
Tank hit in Vietnam:
https://one-six-one.fifthinfantrydivision.com/m48rpg.htm
RobinNilsson
Staff MemberDirector of Member Services
KITMAKER NETWORK
Visit this Community
Stockholm, Sweden
Member Since: November 29, 2006
entire network: 6,657 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,035 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 03:20 AM UTC

Gunners shield on a Hummer


Bradley


Abrams

No info on which type/model/make of RPG made the above holes.
Lots of splatter, some burned paint and a more or less jagged hole?

/ Robin
tankmodeler
#417
Visit this Community
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 01, 2004
entire network: 3,123 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 03:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Gunners shield on a Hummer


You can see here that the jet went in the near side and out the far side of the gunner's location. An RPG-7 or equivalent is meant to got through 8-10" of armour so a couple of 1/2" plates aren't an issue.

Hopefully there wasn't anyone in the turret at the time.

Paul
GreenBooRay
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: April 23, 2009
entire network: 52 Posts
KitMaker Network: 19 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 10:31 AM UTC
Gino, Robin, Paul,

Thanks gentlemen, those pics are VERY helpful!

Appreciate it ....

Steve
trickymissfit
Member Since: October 03, 2007
entire network: 1,382 Posts
KitMaker Network: 31 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 07:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve



If the tank took an RPG in the rear grill it'd probably e done, as in a burn out. But on the slightest chance, the warhead might hit one of the blades, setting it off outside the hull. There'd still be damage, and would have to be towed.
Most hits are to the side, and end up being a glancing blow. Think of a deep scar. A turret hit is very difficult for several reasons. Even then they would usually hit the spare tracks. Remember it's near impossible to get close enough to the rear to make a bit. It's all in the way they travel. The ACAV running behind him will ruin his day. Forget the front as well. Best hit is near the driver's side, and even that's difficult.
RPG's and tanks often end up making the shooter into a red spot. His best chance is from bushes at the side. Most 48's were knocked out by 155 rounds used as mines. VC almost always seemed to bury them on the left side of a trail. Never could quite figure that one out! Another monster to a tank is a 75mm or 90mm recoilless rifle. They'll but a tank hull like it was made of paper. Remember that at least on tank in the column has a can round in the breech, and the local VC knew this.
I stayed away from tanks, as I knew who was getting shot first! But the ACAV was what they should have had their eyes on.
Gary
trickymissfit
Member Since: October 03, 2007
entire network: 1,382 Posts
KitMaker Network: 31 Posts
Posted: Friday, October 25, 2019 - 08:01 PM UTC
In Vietnam, most RPGs were RPG7's, but there were RPG14's out there. I think they were seeing 21's in the seventies. The higher the number, the better they were. A 14 will penetrate the turret on a 48 with a perfect hit.
Normally there is a shooter and a loader carrying two or three rounds. You go after the loader first, as the shooter will turn tail and run, or stop dead in his tracks.
Gary
GreenBooRay
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: April 23, 2009
entire network: 52 Posts
KitMaker Network: 19 Posts
Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2019 - 03:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve



If the tank took an RPG in the rear grill it'd probably e done, as in a burn out. But on the slightest chance, the warhead might hit one of the blades, setting it off outside the hull. There'd still be damage, and would have to be towed.
Most hits are to the side, and end up being a glancing blow. Think of a deep scar. A turret hit is very difficult for several reasons. Even then they would usually hit the spare tracks. Remember it's near impossible to get close enough to the rear to make a bit. It's all in the way they travel. The ACAV running behind him will ruin his day. Forget the front as well. Best hit is near the driver's side, and even that's difficult.
RPG's and tanks often end up making the shooter into a red spot. His best chance is from bushes at the side. Most 48's were knocked out by 155 rounds used as mines. VC almost always seemed to bury them on the left side of a trail. Never could quite figure that one out! Another monster to a tank is a 75mm or 90mm recoilless rifle. They'll but a tank hull like it was made of paper. Remember that at least on tank in the column has a can round in the breech, and the local VC knew this.
I stayed away from tanks, as I knew who was getting shot first! But the ACAV was what they should have had their eyes on.
Gary

GreenBooRay
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: April 23, 2009
entire network: 52 Posts
KitMaker Network: 19 Posts
Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2019 - 03:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve



If the tank took an RPG in the rear grill it'd probably e done, as in a burn out. But on the slightest chance, the warhead might hit one of the blades, setting it off outside the hull. There'd still be damage, and would have to be towed.
Most hits are to the side, and end up being a glancing blow. Think of a deep scar. A turret hit is very difficult for several reasons. Even then they would usually hit the spare tracks. Remember it's near impossible to get close enough to the rear to make a bit. It's all in the way they travel. The ACAV running behind him will ruin his day. Forget the front as well. Best hit is near the driver's side, and even that's difficult.
RPG's and tanks often end up making the shooter into a red spot. His best chance is from bushes at the side. Most 48's were knocked out by 155 rounds used as mines. VC almost always seemed to bury them on the left side of a trail. Never could quite figure that one out! Another monster to a tank is a 75mm or 90mm recoilless rifle. They'll but a tank hull like it was made of paper. Remember that at least on tank in the column has a can round in the breech, and the local VC knew this.
I stayed away from tanks, as I knew who was getting shot first! But the ACAV was what they should have had their eyes on.
Gary



Gary,

As I said previously, the dio I'm doing is from my experience in the A Shau Valley in August 1969.

The M48 I'm trying to replicate took a "glancing hit" from an RPG in the engine grill and did not burn (warhead must not have hit any fuel lines, etc.). But,that track was definitely "red-lined" after the hit.
trickymissfit
Member Since: October 03, 2007
entire network: 1,382 Posts
KitMaker Network: 31 Posts
Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2019 - 02:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve



If the tank took an RPG in the rear grill it'd probably e done, as in a burn out. But on the slightest chance, the warhead might hit one of the blades, setting it off outside the hull. There'd still be damage, and would have to be towed.
Most hits are to the side, and end up being a glancing blow. Think of a deep scar. A turret hit is very difficult for several reasons. Even then they would usually hit the spare tracks. Remember it's near impossible to get close enough to the rear to make a bit. It's all in the way they travel. The ACAV running behind him will ruin his day. Forget the front as well. Best hit is near the driver's side, and even that's difficult.
RPG's and tanks often end up making the shooter into a red spot. His best chance is from bushes at the side. Most 48's were knocked out by 155 rounds used as mines. VC almost always seemed to bury them on the left side of a trail. Never could quite figure that one out! Another monster to a tank is a 75mm or 90mm recoilless rifle. They'll but a tank hull like it was made of paper. Remember that at least on tank in the column has a can round in the breech, and the local VC knew this.
I stayed away from tanks, as I knew who was getting shot first! But the ACAV was what they should have had their eyes on.
Gary



Gary,

As I said previously, the dio I'm doing is from my experience in the A Shau Valley in August 1969.

The M48 I'm trying to replicate took a "glancing hit" from an RPG in the engine grill and did not burn (warhead must not have hit any fuel lines, etc.). But,that track was definitely "red-lined" after the hit.



An M48 in the Ashau Valley is interesting! Won't tell you why as it's similar to landing a Skyraider and then taking off again.
I would take a serious look at the 17th CAV, as in August 68 they moved into the 101st A.O. They kept their 48's as well as some others up that way. There surely is a website for them. Prior to August, I know of no armor unit that might have made it that far west. East by the air strip (actually five klicks east of the valley) is a probable.
The Ashau was primarily an insertion war, and then on foot. I did an OP in late September with the 101st, and there were no tracks on the south end of the valley; although the OP was a bust.
Not being derogatory, but unless you were way up north; you just didn't see tracks much past the fort miles from Highway One. Just too mountainous for them. If there was, I'll let you know as I have a close friend that did 68 and 69 in there. I'll ask him next time I see him.
Gary
Johnnych01
Visit this Community
England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 29, 2019
entire network: 602 Posts
KitMaker Network: 41 Posts
Posted: Saturday, October 26, 2019 - 06:44 PM UTC
On the subject of RPG type hits, it would be interesting to see the damage that occurred on some of the Challenger 2's while operating at various times in Iraq. One took about 14 RPG and 1 Milan type AT missile after it threw a track (crew survived safe inside the vehicle until it was recovered for repair !!) and in another contact a Chally 2 took what was to be believed between 50 and 70 RPG hits and survived !!!!! that will give you a headache ( first incident was told to a group of us by one of the Squadron guys who was there while we were on a course).
GreenBooRay
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: April 23, 2009
entire network: 52 Posts
KitMaker Network: 19 Posts
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 - 03:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve



If the tank took an RPG in the rear grill it'd probably e done, as in a burn out. But on the slightest chance, the warhead might hit one of the blades, setting it off outside the hull. There'd still be damage, and would have to be towed.
Most hits are to the side, and end up being a glancing blow. Think of a deep scar. A turret hit is very difficult for several reasons. Even then they would usually hit the spare tracks. Remember it's near impossible to get close enough to the rear to make a bit. It's all in the way they travel. The ACAV running behind him will ruin his day. Forget the front as well. Best hit is near the driver's side, and even that's difficult.
RPG's and tanks often end up making the shooter into a red spot. His best chance is from bushes at the side. Most 48's were knocked out by 155 rounds used as mines. VC almost always seemed to bury them on the left side of a trail. Never could quite figure that one out! Another monster to a tank is a 75mm or 90mm recoilless rifle. They'll but a tank hull like it was made of paper. Remember that at least on tank in the column has a can round in the breech, and the local VC knew this.
I stayed away from tanks, as I knew who was getting shot first! But the ACAV was what they should have had their eyes on.
Gary



Gary,

As I said previously, the dio I'm doing is from my experience in the A Shau Valley in August 1969.

The M48 I'm trying to replicate took a "glancing hit" from an RPG in the engine grill and did not burn (warhead must not have hit any fuel lines, etc.). But,that track was definitely "red-lined" after the hit.



An M48 in the Ashau Valley is interesting! Won't tell you why as it's similar to landing a Skyraider and then taking off again.
I would take a serious look at the 17th CAV, as in August 68 they moved into the 101st A.O. They kept their 48's as well as some others up that way. There surely is a website for them. Prior to August, I know of no armor unit that might have made it that far west. East by the air strip (actually five klicks east of the valley) is a probable.
The Ashau was primarily an insertion war, and then on foot. I did an OP in late September with the 101st, and there were no tracks on the south end of the valley; although the OP was a bust.
Not being derogatory, but unless you were way up north; you just didn't see tracks much past the fort miles from Highway One. Just too mountainous for them. If there was, I'll let you know as I have a close friend that did 68 and 69 in there. I'll ask him next time I see him.
Gary



Gary,

My unit, B 3/187 (3d Bde 101st) was part of a combined arms task force (along with B Troop 3/5 Cav and C Co. 2/34 Armor) operating in the central and southern part of the A Shau Valley in late July through mid-August 1969. (Look up Operation Louisiana Lee / Richland.)

So, appreciate your input BUT .... this isn't "speculation" re: if there were armored and cav units operating in the A Shau Valley during this time period ... I WAS THERE.
AmTrac1833
#431
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: February 20, 2014
entire network: 376 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3 Posts
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 - 01:01 PM UTC
Here’s couple shots of an AAV that took couple RPG rounds to her snout. She took these hits in ’03. After swapping out the powerpack she was ready to roll again. I wound up with this tractor in my platoon stateside. She ran like a champ but was water “deadline” – for obvious reasons.
These photos were taken when she was put out in the lot at Barstow. All the tractors were being inducted for the RAM rebuild after OIF and AAVs such this one with too much damage became “parts” vehicles.




trickymissfit
Member Since: October 03, 2007
entire network: 1,382 Posts
KitMaker Network: 31 Posts
Posted: Sunday, October 27, 2019 - 03:31 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Does anyone have any photos of, or can direct me to a good site showing the results of an RPG hit on a tank?

I'm building a Vietnam dio with a M-48 that has taken an RPG hit in the engine grill. Got a pretty good idea of the results but some additional photos would be appreciated (does not have to be of either an M48 nor Vietnam) but would like it to be of a tank (not M113s, soft skins, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

Steve



If the tank took an RPG in the rear grill it'd probably e done, as in a burn out. But on the slightest chance, the warhead might hit one of the blades, setting it off outside the hull. There'd still be damage, and would have to be towed.
Most hits are to the side, and end up being a glancing blow. Think of a deep scar. A turret hit is very difficult for several reasons. Even then they would usually hit the spare tracks. Remember it's near impossible to get close enough to the rear to make a bit. It's all in the way they travel. The ACAV running behind him will ruin his day. Forget the front as well. Best hit is near the driver's side, and even that's difficult.
RPG's and tanks often end up making the shooter into a red spot. His best chance is from bushes at the side. Most 48's were knocked out by 155 rounds used as mines. VC almost always seemed to bury them on the left side of a trail. Never could quite figure that one out! Another monster to a tank is a 75mm or 90mm recoilless rifle. They'll but a tank hull like it was made of paper. Remember that at least on tank in the column has a can round in the breech, and the local VC knew this.
I stayed away from tanks, as I knew who was getting shot first! But the ACAV was what they should have had their eyes on.
Gary



Gary,

As I said previously, the dio I'm doing is from my experience in the A Shau Valley in August 1969.

The M48 I'm trying to replicate took a "glancing hit" from an RPG in the engine grill and did not burn (warhead must not have hit any fuel lines, etc.). But,that track was definitely "red-lined" after the hit.



An M48 in the Ashau Valley is interesting! Won't tell you why as it's similar to landing a Skyraider and then taking off again.
I would take a serious look at the 17th CAV, as in August 68 they moved into the 101st A.O. They kept their 48's as well as some others up that way. There surely is a website for them. Prior to August, I know of no armor unit that might have made it that far west. East by the air strip (actually five klicks east of the valley) is a probable.
The Ashau was primarily an insertion war, and then on foot. I did an OP in late September with the 101st, and there were no tracks on the south end of the valley; although the OP was a bust.
Not being derogatory, but unless you were way up north; you just didn't see tracks much past the fort miles from Highway One. Just too mountainous for them. If there was, I'll let you know as I have a close friend that did 68 and 69 in there. I'll ask him next time I see him.
Gary



Gary,

My unit, B 3/187 (3d Bde 101st) was part of a combined arms task force (along with B Troop 3/5 Cav and C Co. 2/34 Armor) operating in the central and southern part of the A Shau Valley in late July through mid-August 1969. (Look up Operation Louisiana Lee / Richland.)

So, appreciate your input BUT .... this isn't "speculation" re: if there were armored and cav units operating in the A Shau Valley during this time period ... I WAS THERE.



No speculation here. Just saw no way to get there. I do know there were red balls all over the place once you got there.
Gary