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Cold War (1950-1974)
Discuss the aircraft modeling subjects during the Cold War period.
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A-1H Skyraider #572 bomb load
Tanksami
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 10:31 AM UTC
Hi All,

I have seen the photo of the Skyraider 572 of VA 25 Fist of the fleet with the “Toilet Bomb” on it, can anyone tell me what size the rest of the bombs are??

I believe that it is carting 2 x 2000 pound & 4 x 500 pound bombs as well maybe??

Sorry I can’t post the picture as it is on my home computer, which has a virus atm.

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 11:27 AM UTC
I had this worked out from looking at photos.
They were 500lb on the outboard, but not Mk82's. They're an earlier high drag type.
The bombs are included in both boxing's of the Tamiya 1/48.
Inboard, they were a CBU but can't remember what type. I do know that the type is in one of the Hasegawa sets so will have to look on the box.

What scale are you building?

I'll have a look in my reference books and find the photo I worked from and post it.

Tanksami
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 01:04 PM UTC
Hi,

Many thanks for the reply, I am doing the Tamiya 1/48th scale Skyraider, I thought that the 500 ponders looked like old WW2 stock??

I thought that the 2000 pounders in the Tamiya kit were what was mounted on the inner pylon & that the big fuel tank was on the centre line Weapins mount?

Thanks
Mike
litespeed
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 08:27 PM UTC
Jessica added this link to a news item I did about the Hasegawa's release of the toilet totting Skyraider. Judging by the photo Hasegawa has failed to accurately portray the load.
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Thursday, April 23, 2020 - 09:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jessica added this link to a news item I did about the Hasegawa's release of the toilet totting Skyraider. Judging by the photo Hasegawa has failed to accurately portray the load.



Those are the photos I have in a couple of books. I couldn't get a clear picture of them to post. Still need to get the scanner sorted on my laptop. Thanks for sharing.

Mike, the US Navy still had a lot of stocks of WW2 era box fin bombs that were being lugged by the A-1's in the 60's. Even old depth charges were dropped! Certainly opens up further load possibilities for future builds. Another thing to note about the toilet bomb is that it had a tail assembly bolted on the back and painted red. It's similar to that on a Mk.82.
If you're using the Brengun resin set, they forgot to include this.

I think the inboard CBU's were either CBU-24 or SUU-30. Will have to compare the two with the photos to be certain.
Tanksami
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 10:28 AM UTC
Awesome link thank you!! It is a pity that the video doesn’t show more, but very cool.

Thanks for pointing out the red tail fun & it not being in the brengun update set, I hadn’t noticed it on the “bomb” and not on the Brengun etching set.

So can anyone confirm which size bombs are loaded out next to it so to speak?

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 12:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Awesome link thank you!! It is a pity that the video doesn’t show more, but very cool.

Thanks for pointing out the red tail fun & it not being in the brengun update set, I hadn’t noticed it on the “bomb” and not on the Brengun etching set.

So can anyone confirm which size bombs are loaded out next to it so to speak?

Thanks
Mike



Weird, I was just looking at this very thing!
Found this page which does a pretty thorough job of analysing the photos to identify the bombs.

[https://www.midwaysailor.com/midwayva25bomb/] Sani-flush[/url]

Seems to be they were 6x AN-M64 500 pounders and 2x AN-M57 250lb bombs. WW2 era with low drag fins.
The Tamiya kit includes the M64's and the M57's could probably be sourced from a resin AM manufacturer.

Interestingly, the page finishes with photos showing that during the Korean War a Skyraider dropped a kitchen sink! Now that definitely needs building!
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Monday, April 27, 2020 - 12:31 PM UTC
Try again,

https://www.midwaysailor.com/midwayva25bomb/
Tanksami
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 10:26 AM UTC
Hi All,

So just confirming that the bombs on the outer pylons closet to the toilet are only 250 pounders? And that the small bombs in the Tamiya kit are meant to be these? Also that the two “larger” bombs on the inner wing pylons are 250 pound cbu, which aren’t supplied in the kit?

Sorry I just want to make sure I get it right, as the 250 pounders in the Tamiya kit to my old man’s eyes look half the size of the ones in the photos?

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 11:49 AM UTC
That's what I thought, but according to the page I linked the load was as follows:

From outboard-in ;
Toilet, empty, M64, empty, M64, M57 and inner pylon another M64.
In total 6x M54's and 2x M57's.

The M64 is a 500lb and M57 a 250lb.

Looking again at the photos I'm convinced they're right. That inboard bomb is definitely not a CBU but an M64.

The Tamiya kit includes the M64's and Brengun do a set of resin M57's with the post-war low drag tails.

Hope it helps.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 11:52 AM UTC
Just thinking, the page does provide measurements for both the M64 and M57 at 1/48 scale.
I'd measure up the Tamiya bombs and see which is closest. They could indeed be 250 pounders.
Unfortunately I don't have my kit to hand at the moment to measure them.


phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Tuesday, April 28, 2020 - 12:09 PM UTC
Whichever they turn out to be, Brengun have you covered for the other.

M64A1 set:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRL48102?result-token=8eTjQ

And M57A1 set:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRL48101?result-token=GDbfv

Tanksami
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 10:16 AM UTC
Thanks very much for that information!! Oh I wish I had asked this question about 4 months ago, as I had the Brengun set for the toilet bowl brought for me & brought back from the UK at Christmas by my mum to save paying the $40 odd dollars in postage!!

I have no idea what size the 250 pounders in the Tamiya kit are, but will measure them tonight & advise. But I must admit I am leaning towards getting both Brengun Sets so that way the detail level is the same all the way through.

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 10:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks very much for that information!! Oh I wish I had asked this question about 4 months ago, as I had the Brengun set for the toilet bowl brought for me & brought back from the UK at Christmas by my mum to save paying the $40 odd dollars in postage!!

I have no idea what size the 250 pounders in the Tamiya kit are, but will measure them tonight & advise. But I must admit I am leaning towards getting both Brengun Sets so that way the detail level is the same all the way through.

Thanks
Mike



My pleasure.
I've got the very same set so I had been researching it myself, happy to share my findings.
You can't go wrong with both those sets of bombs. Brengun stuff is usually really nicely cast and the etch fins will look better than the plastic.
Tanksami
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 10:50 AM UTC
Hi Stephen,

Do you know if Brengun do a set for the mark 82 bombs? As I am thinking it may pay to get that to so that the bomb fins are all the same detail level.

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 11:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Stephen,

Do you know if Brengun do a set for the mark 82 bombs? As I am thinking it may pay to get that to so that the bomb fins are all the same detail level.

Thanks
Mike



Couldn't find any Mk82's in their range.
Only resin ones on Hannants were by CMK. But £8.20 for just two bombs is quite frankly taking the p**s if you'll excuse my French.

It's only an educated guess on my part that the tail on the toilet could have come from a Mk.82. It looks about the right size and shape. When I do get around to doing it I'm just going to cut the tail off one from either the kit or a Hasegawa set. If you look at the photos, the tail is fairly simple and featureless and the fins look like they blend into the cone rather than meet at a sharp angular join. Something that nearly all the plastic bombs have in common.

A good buy however, might be Brenguns 300gal droptank set. These have the option of building them with the short flat tail that 572 carried on the centreline. Now, I can't remember if the Tamiya tank has that or not. It could also be an easy job to just chop it off if they're the long tail. Certainly save you money.
Here's the link:
https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/BRL48105?result-token=s07GG

Currently I'm on the lookout for the smaller 150gal tanks to use on the inboard stations of some USAF A-1's I have planned. No luck anywhere yet.
Tanksami
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Posted: Wednesday, April 29, 2020 - 09:56 PM UTC
Hi Stephen,

Cool thanks for the heads up re the correct drop tank to, as I normally only build armour I know nothing about the correct sizing of bombs & that.

These drop tanks you are looking for, are the a particular brand?? As I am going to call the only aircraft shop I know & see if he has any of the brengun stuff, so I could ask about your drop tanks to if you like?

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Thursday, April 30, 2020 - 02:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Stephen,

Cool thanks for the heads up re the correct drop tank to, as I normally only build armour I know nothing about the correct sizing of bombs & that.

These drop tanks you are looking for, are the a particular brand?? As I am going to call the only aircraft shop I know & see if he has any of the brengun stuff, so I could ask about your drop tanks to if you like?

Thanks
Mike



Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately no one does make them in 1/48. Hence my problem. I haven't been able to find any resin manufacturer that made a set.
The 300 gallon was much more common and the smaller 150 was rarely seen. The USAF tended to use them on the inboard station to reduce the overall weight. There's a chance I might have some somewhere.
Tanksami
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Posted: Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 10:55 AM UTC
Hi Stephen,

You are very welcome re the offer on trying to find those 150gal tanks, I am just sorry that I could be of help!!

Do you know if they had an extra bomb on the opposite wing to balance the weight out of the toilet bomb? Or would the pilot just have added lots of extra rudder / flaps??

Thanks
Mike
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 11:33 AM UTC
I've searched high and low for a set and Jo luck. It's a very specific tank and those I have found don't match for the shape. Only luck I had was a 1/72 set by Freightdog models. I did find out the proper name for the tank,but can't remember off the top of my head. Thanks for the offer, it's appreciated.

As far as I'm aware only the one loo was carried. Certainly no reference mentions a second. A-1's frequently carried asymmetric loads, especially in USAF service, so it probably had little effect on the handling. It can't have helped with the aerodynamics!
Jessie_C
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Posted: Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 12:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Stephen,

Do you know if they had an extra bomb on the opposite wing to balance the weight out of the toilet bomb? Or would the pilot just have added lots of extra rudder / flaps??



Given that a toilet weighs only a few kilos (It's mostly air inside) and its drag would have been quite small I doubt that the pilot would have needed to make any adjustment at all. If he needed to do anything, the trim tabs would more than take care of it.
phantom_phanatic309
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Posted: Friday, May 15, 2020 - 07:05 AM UTC
The Skyraider could carry pretty much anything with little effect on the handling.
Look at the multi-seat A-1E in the centre, with a big bulky radar pod under the starboard wing. I think the smaller pod under the port is an ECM.



You can also see a huge range of bombs and rocket pods among the other A-1's around it.