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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
RNAS gun turret 'flying off' platforms.
G-man69
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2020 - 12:38 AM UTC
Hi all,

I have the WNW ship's Camel and would like to display it perched on a 'flying off' platform located above a suitable gun turret.

Does anyone know whether there are any detailed drawings/plans of such platforms and how they were affixed to the turret?

Also, any drawings/plans of a suitable turret would be useful.

Any guidance/help would be greatly appreciated.

I will also post this in ‘Model Shipwrights’ as the question probably falls within the remit of both sites.

Cheers, ,

G
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2020 - 07:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi all,

I have the WNW ship's Camel and would like to display it perched on a 'flying off' platform located above a suitable gun turret.

Does anyone know whether there are any detailed drawings/plans of such platforms and how they were affixed to the turret?

Also, any drawings/plans of a suitable turret would be useful.

Any guidance/help would be greatly appreciated.

I will also post this in ‘Model Shipwrights’ as the question probably falls within the remit of both sites.

Cheers, ,

G



Hmmm....great minds think alike? Here’s a link to my posting about this same subject from last week. I’ve been doing quite a bit of research, and Rob Lockie has provided me with some plans for Repulse and the 15” BL turrets. Be aware this is quite an undertaking, I’m in the process of scaling out the plans now, and a 15” BL Turret from Repulse will be about 7” wide by nearly 27” long, about 4.5” deep, not counting the mounting or the ramp, but those are just rough calculations for now.

The WnW instruction manual photo of Rutland’s Pup is also labeled wrong, the photo is of “Y” turret on the stern, not “B” turret on the bow, although there should be no difference in turret dimensions. The “B” turret ramp was longer, (and sectioned to allow elevation of the guns) projecting out over the guns to accommodate the longer takeoff needed for the heavier 1&1/2 Strutter and the Navalized Camel. Here’s a link to my posting, PM me, and when I’m through scaling out the plans, I’ll send you the scale turret dimensions.

https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=287315

I have yet to locate any information on ramp construction, Other than the Ramps were wood, but I suspect the underpinnings are steel construction bolted or welded to the turret top, Or at least the footings are. For the “B” turret gun ramp, I think these are specially made of steel, as they’re bolted around the gun. But I’ll keep looking.

VR, Russ
gastec
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2020 - 10:27 AM UTC
May be of help?

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/74111-wingnut-wings-rnas-pup-onboard-hms-repulsive/

I'm planning a Sopwith Pup with skids for a similar idea using a WNW kit.

Gary
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2020 - 11:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

May be of help?

https://forum.largescaleplanes.com/index.php?/topic/74111-wingnut-wings-rnas-pup-onboard-hms-repulsive/

I'm planning a Sopwith Pup with skids for a similar idea using a WNW kit.

Gary



Yes, I saw this while doing on-line research. It’s a beautiful diorama, and equally beautiful model, but it also only gives 1/4 of a view, and it might be the camera angle, but the turret appears a bit “squashed”. The author also indicates he’s used a lot of artistic license as well. For my model, I’d like to build the entire turret. I’ve just learned this afternoon that the first “Pup” flight by Rutland was indeed made off the “B” turret on October 1st, but subsequent flights were made off the “Y” turret on the 8th. The “B” turret ramp was significantly different than the “Y” turret ramp. It might be the “B” turret ramp was revised for subsequent flights with later aircraft. The “Y” turret ramp was used by flying the aircraft toward the rear of the turret, whereas the “B” turret ramp was used to fly the aircraft off the guns. The range finder position shows that the “Y” turret ramp went up and over it, whereas the “B” turret ramp stopped just at the range finder. This means to launch a Pup of the “Y” turret, the turret was rotated to the side. I still haven’t determined if the ship was facing into the wind or stationary when these aircraft were launched. In any case, it must have been a hairy experience.
VR, Russ
G-man69
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Posted: Thursday, August 27, 2020 - 11:11 PM UTC
Hi Russ and Gary,

Thank you both for taking the time to read my post and respond, it's much appreciated, thank you.

Your feedback is very useful and, maybe, this is an area that we can help each other...and others...on, by sharing any information gleaned, .

I have sent off for two books the first is 'The Royal Navy's Air Service in the Great War' by David Hobbs, and the second is a New Vanguard title 'World War 1 Seaplane and Aircraft Carriers'.

I have also emailed the Fleet Air Arm Museum here in the UK, basically asking the same question.

Anything useful that I discover will be shared in this post which, hopefully, will benefit us all, .

Thanks again both, and cheers, ,

G
Kevlar06
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 28, 2020 - 12:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Russ and Gary,

Thank you both for taking the time to read my post and respond, it's much appreciated, thank you.

Your feedback is very useful and, maybe, this is an area that we can help each other...and others...on, by sharing any information gleaned, .

I have sent off for two books the first is 'The Royal Navy's Air Service in the Great War' by David Hobbs, and the second is a New Vanguard title 'World War 1 Seaplane and Aircraft Carriers'.

I have also emailed the Fleet Air Arm Museum here in the UK, basically asking the same question.

Anything useful that I discover will be shared in this post which, hopefully, will benefit us all, .

Thanks again both, and cheers, ,

G



G— great idea, let’s us know what you found out. In another inconsistency, just today I found a wider shot of the same WNW photo of a Pup on a ramp, clearly showing it on a turret at deck level, (has to be “A” or “Y” turret on the Repulse), but the wider shot has three large caliber guns in the photo, implying it was taken on a different ship altogether. I think these ramps went through many changes.
VR, Russ
gastec
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Posted: Friday, August 28, 2020 - 06:36 PM UTC
Any possibility of up-scaling a turret from say a 1/350 scale kit?
RLlockie
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Posted: Saturday, August 29, 2020 - 02:20 AM UTC
Well anything is ‘possible’ but even assuming that the 1/350 example is dimensionally accurate, you’d be multiplying every component by more than 10x and thus the scale compromises that the designer made for a 1/350 part will be magnified.

I’ve seen kits which appear to have been designed using that approach and even using a 1/35 kit as the basis for a 1/16 one resulted in an obviously crude depiction compared to designing the 1/16 kit from a 1/1 original. For example, while a non-working blob for a tool clamp might be acceptable in 1/35, in 1/16 it will look pretty duff. Multiply that difference by around five times and it will be pretty obvious.

While referring to smaller scale models can be useful when trying to interpret 2D drawings, when it comes to sizes I’d much rather start with a dimensioned drawing like the builder’s plans than some kit designer’s interpretation (of who knows which sources), which are then compromised to turn into a much smaller kit.