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Campaigns: Dive! Dive! Dive!
For campaign discussions of Dive! Dive! Dive!
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USS Boise "Re-work"
thathaway3
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Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 10:26 AM UTC
Hopefully this attaches the photo of the rework I've done to the stern of the DML "LA Class" I'm doing as the SSN 764, USS Boise for the DDD campaign.

If I get the "dreaded red x" I'm going to be frustrated and need some help figuring out how to get stuff posted to the campaign gallery and into the forum.

Tom

95bravo
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Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 07:57 AM UTC
Tom,

What did you use for the mounts for your counter measures pods? Or were those kit supplied? I didn't do anything for my I-688, though I wish I had. That's been bothering me. For your prop guard , did you just cut a section of thin tube for that?

Let me know, I'm still at a point where I can correct mine.

Looks great by the way!

Steve
thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 - 02:31 AM UTC
The two mounts are extra "planes" which are already in the kit, but not used. I cut them to the shape I wanted as they were pretty much "constant section" rather than shaped as the real ones are. The pods are nubs from the tree, filed and sanded to round them in the front. I used a pin vise to add the "holes" in the back. I also rounded, drilled out, and used a razor saw to cut out the outside edge of the plane on the stern.


I did the prop shroud the hard way. It's a strip of styrene glued around the prop tips. I took the "new" prop which came on tree "D", and cut off both the pointed end cone and cut down the tips. The real shroud is thicker, more tapered, and molded into the blades, but that's awfully hard to do. Here's another shot.

I've got to do the final sanding and touch up the primer tonight, and then I'll start painting.

Tom


95bravo
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Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 - 04:31 AM UTC
I'd like to make a request and this, if you have time, if you would take a photo of your forward dive planes for me. I'd like to compare your kit's to mine. The planes on mine seem to extend too far from the hull. They just don't look right to me.

Thanks for that other shot of the countermeasures pods and prop. I can now see better what I would need to do with mine.

Thanks again
Steve
thathaway3
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 05:18 AM UTC
Here's another shot. You can see where I filled in the incorrect location for two of the tomahawk silos and added two new ones. (The hatchs sure don't fit well do they!!)

You should be able to see the forward planes. Again, those are from the added tree "D".

Once again I followed the kit instructions and cut away some of the upper hull piece and once again found out the instructjons were WRONG.

I guess not all the 688's have these retractable forward planes (the pre I 688's of course have them mounted on the sail). But for the boats that do, (like Boise and Columbus, the two I'm doing), they retract straight inboard into the hull, they don't fold back. When they are in the "level" position, you would not be able to see the "slot" they retract into, so having cut out, I wound up having to sand and fill. If you look VERY closely you can see the green stuff behind and below the planes.

The other adds you can see are 4 additional Main Ballast Tank vents (just small holes), a small disc of sprue to represent the capstan, and a scribed hatch which is used forward to load torpedos.

I finished sanding and priming last night and applied the first coat of black. I'm planning on doing the second coat tonight, and then mask and do the red on the bottom half of the hull later in the week.

I'm really shooting to finish the build by the end of the weekend!!

Tom

95bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 05:40 AM UTC
Tom, thank you very much for the photo.

I can see that I may be a victim of the instruction sheet as well. My planes extend far beyond what yours do, but then again, I'm not positive if the Topeka is fitted with the planes that retract in or sweep back. In looking at yours, I think I should toss mine back into the tank and strip it, then make the new corrections.
*SIGH*

Well, I guess I still have until May 31st to finish them all. I went ahead and started the Kilo last night just for the hell of it.

This is a prime example of the pitfalls in having a sparse library of submarine references.

Again, thank you for the photo.
thathaway3
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text


This is a prime example of the pitfalls in having a sparse library of submarine references.




There's a reason they're called the Silent Service! :-) :-)

One reason is they tend to keep a lot of details "close hold" as you might say. An example is you will almost never find any reference to how deep subs operate, except for the old WW II diesel electrics. The best you might find it "in excess of 800 feet". If it weren't for all the helpful suggestions from my son who was assigned to a fast attack for 4 years, who knows what mine might look like.

But look at it from the positive side.

Who's gonna look at your build and say, "HEY! That's not right!" :-) :-)

Tom
95bravo
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Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

But look at it from the positive side.

Who's gonna look at your build and say, "HEY! That's not right!" :-) :-)



*LOL* Not many, but there will be at least one....besides me.

Here is a shot of my foreward planes, as you can see they are, as per the instructions, extended way out there. Which begs the question, is this correct or should they be like you have yours???????


The photos I have of the Topeka...which are few, it's impossible to tell.

I'll also follow your example on building the mounts for the countermeasures "pods".. As well as the VLS doors.


Steve
thathaway3
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Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 07:31 AM UTC
I can't say for certain on the planes, but I seriously doubt that the improved 688's (the ones with the VLS) have that type of plane. They might, but I suspect they don't. What I am just about certain of is that the placement of the tubes in the model is incorrect. I don't think that any boat in the class had them arranged the way the kit does them. Seems like a simple thing for the kitmaker to get right, but whatever.

One other thing my son pointed out was that not only do you need to use the "alternate" cap provided on the infamous sprue "D", if you're doing an improved 688 (scope placement etc), but the shape they provided for both the sail and the top are wrong! (LMAO!!)

The sail is much more "blunt" on the forward end, not tapered exactly like the back. And as you look at it from the side, it is much "flatter" from front to back, with nowhere nearly as much "crown" as the kit has.

Putty, fill, sand, repeat!!!


ANYWAY, I scratch built one additional mast (they only give you three and there should be 4 in addition to the snorkel), and drilled out the opening in the forward end where the bridge is. And I've added one small brass rod just behind the bridge and ahead of the masts for the navigation mast. I also hand painted the camo, because I figured that would take LESS time and effort than fooling with the decals, and I also had one additonal scope that the kit wouldn't have had decals for.

Finished the initial two coats of black on the hull, and my next step is the hull red on the bottom. The Tamiya "Hull Red" is too brown, and I mixed a small sample last night of 1 part Hull Red to 1 part Flat Red, and my son says it looks about right. It isn't a bright red, but it isn't as brown as the "hull red" color.

Based on my son's input, I'll make the entire lower half that color, using the exact "center" of the hull (rather than the "waterline") as the dividing line. One note: that will put the entire counter measures pod in the red section. My son tells me that the top surface of that would be black. Makes sense when you look directly down on the model from the top in a plan view. Sort of the same concept as painting aircraft wings.

I'll try and do some more photos in the next couple of days.

Getting close now!!


Tom
95bravo
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Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 01:53 AM UTC
I was afraid that you would say that about the dive planes, though it comes of no surprise. *Sigh*
Well, I can estimate the width of your planes but could you tell me the length? I doubt if I cut down the kit supplied planes that they'll be long enough. So I guess I'll be making them from Evergreen stock. The sail will have to remain the same. That's just a lot more than I can manage and far beyond on my skills.

I guess I'll get started on this after I take it out of the tank and finishing stripping it.

Here we go again!

Steve
skipper
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Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 02:22 AM UTC
Ahoy Steve!

Sometimes life and projects like this appear just to make us find that we are more skilled than we'd thought we were!
I think you should grab some evergreen sheet, cut it, sand it to shape, scribe those lines and using a pinvise making those little holes!
I also know that it is easyer to write it, than to do it, but you have to do it... and find that it wasn't all that difficult

Skipper
thathaway3
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Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 08:40 AM UTC
From the sounds of your note, it appears that you didn't get the "extra" sprue "D" with your kit, is that right?

If so, I have good news and BETTER news.

The good news is, if you contact DML they'll send you one, (for a price). That gives you all the stuff you need to get a bit closer to an I-688, than what the original sprues had.

How do I know this? Because I have one and that's the BETTER news. For some reason I THOUGHT that one of my kits was an older version and didn't have the extra sprue, and so I got one from DML.

Which is now sitting in the box of the OTHER kit I'm going to do as the Columbus (hopefully before the end of the DDD campaign, but we'll see!) and it's sitting RIGHT NEXT to the one that was ALREADY IN THE BOX!!! :-) :-) :-)

SO, since I have an extra, and it appears you need one, send me your snail mail info via PM and it's on the way!

And Skipper is right. For a part like the planes in that scale, you could scratch them from Evergreen stock, and with a #11 exacto blade and a file it's cake. Just cut away the parts that look like they don't belong!!!

Let me know what you want to do.

Tom
95bravo
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Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 10:15 AM UTC
Hey Tom and Skipper

My kit didn't come with a "D" tree, it's the Alfa and Dallas kit. I guess I can ballpark the length of the planes and go ahead and scratch those...you're both right, that should be pretty simple and well within my abilities.

Don't worry about the extra tree, though I do truly appreciate the kind offer. I think I'll just live with the rest of it being incorrect. My timeline is shortening quickly and I need to finish these not only for the campaign but for the display that they will be part of. I doubt anyone who'll see the display will know the difference...with the exception of me.

I'll pull it out of the stripping tank tomorrow. Most of the paint is off and should all be off by then. Then, I'll change all of the other things. I was trying to find some tubes with a large enough diameter to fit over the prop as a shroud.....Soda straws are out... Even the jumbo McDonalds variety.
skipper
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Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 - 10:28 PM UTC
Help with the shroud ring

Technique: Thermaforming

1 - Find any tube (Metal, wood, plastic (other than polistyrene), etc) of the needed section.
2 - cut a strip of plastic card and wrap it tightly around the "master" and fix it with tape (one or two rounds).
3 - Put a cattle or a pot with water on the stove and wait until the water starts to boil.
4 - Place the master with the styrene band-aid inside the boiling water and wait for about 10 seconds.
5 - Remove it carefuly from the water
6 - Let it cool
7 - Remove the tape
8 - By now you should have a ring with the desired section and perfectly rounded

Just go and glue it to the sub!

This is how I made my propeler guard for the Maiale, since that part was not included in the model

Skipper
95bravo
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 - 02:32 AM UTC
Thanks Skip,

I'm sure I can find some brass tubing large enough to serve as a master.

Thanks both of you for helping me out on this. I really really do appreciate it.

Steve

Paint's off, and I refilled the rings this morning. I have one countermeasures section made and I'll see about making the new planes.
thathaway3
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:27 AM UTC
Well I finished the black painting, at least as much as I plan on doing. Next step is to mask the upper half and paint the lower half red. Scopes, and masts and the prop are all painted, and ready to go on. Once I get the hull done and do the decals, I'm going to declare "completion". Eventually I'll come up with a better more personalized stand, but I'll keep the kit supplied one for now. The one thing I'm REALLY disappointed about is the poor fit on the VLS tube hatches. I'm going to figure out a way to make the ones on the other build, fit better, but I doubt I'll do anything with these.

Tom











95bravo
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:39 AM UTC
Hey Tom,

Thanks for adding the overhead shot, now I can see how your planes look and get an idea on length. I can see what you mean about the VLS doors. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to just fill them with putty rather than trying to fit the doors. I also see now what you were talking about on the sail. I was looking at mine this morning and wondering if I could shave enough off of mine yet still have enough "slot" left to mount the scopes.

It looks fine to me!

Steve
thathaway3
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Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 - 07:50 AM UTC
You know I thought about that, but you would still want to see the outline of the doors, so you'd wind up having to scribe them.

One thing I was noticing on the instructions. (But we know what they're worth!) And that is that EVERY hatch had it's own part number.

I looked (not measured) and it appeared to me that all the tubes were the same size and shape, so I figured that the doors were NOT unique to the hatch. I also wasn't REALLY careful when I trimmed the flash off. (Let's face it, those suckers are pretty small!)

So maybe I should have matched them up individually. At least been more careful. Oh well. I may not get "Columbus" done by the end of the campaign, because I'm out of town two of the weekends in May, but for sure, I expect the second build to benefit from what I learned on "Boise".

Oh, and on the sail, to get the shape right, I built up the front part of the sail with green stuff to make it fatter. The cutting I did was flattening the top of the sail to reduce the crown. It did make the holes for the masts/scopes a bit more shallow, but it just wasn't right without changing it.

Tom
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Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2005 - 02:50 AM UTC
I went ahead and filled mine and after it dried and I sanded it, there was just enough shrinkage that the edges of the openings were discernable. (luck)
In looking at yours again this morning, I just noticed that yours came with a bridge as well. I'll have some photos maybe later today or later on this weekend so that you and Skipper can have a look at them. I think my countermeasures mounts may be a little on the long side, but when I look at it from the rear, it seems like that would be correct, given deploying the countermeasures outside of the prop wash.....I guess.

Steve
thathaway3
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Posted: Monday, May 02, 2005 - 07:54 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I just noticed that yours came with a bridge as well.

Steve



Um, actually the bridge came after about an hour of cutting and sanding! Just one more item that the OOB kit was not quite what I felt was required. :-)

I finished the build yesterday, and I'll be putting up some photos shortly.

As much as I'd LOVE to do Columbus before the end of the month, I suspect it isn't going to happen with everything else I'v got on tap for May. At least I got ONE done!!

Tom